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Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

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Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#91

Post by stevejb »

peterwwillis wrote: post #53
dmitrygr wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Biking in freezing rain isn't wonderful either

There's always rain gear... But I'm already working on it, actually. Rentable covered trikes and quadricycles with electric motors and storage. Slim enough to fit two to three units per road lane. Capable of multiple trips across town up steep hills before needing to be recharged, and remaining light enough to pedal (the default mode being lightly assisted power). Tow trailers and rear sidecars are an option, too.

It seems like this approach is a slow re-invention of the car.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#92

Post by burger_moon »

Endama wrote: post #5

I suspect the uncomfortable truth behind a lot of the problems regarding public transit isn't the transit itself, but the passengers. If you had the choice of riding a public bus with a large collection of the public or paying a few bucks and selecting a preferred subset of the ridership (e.g. chariot in SF, uber, lyft, etc.) I think most will choose the non-bus option to feel comfortable during their ride. I'm not s…

It's definitely something that plays into how I ride the bus. My route has an express line that runs during peak hours and the same normal route, both get me to my destination within a few minutes of each other. The express route is people going downtown for work. The normal route goes through the rough areas and gets filled up with people hassling the driver for a free ride and people walking on with open beers at 8am and people openly drug dealing. It makes it pretty easy to decide which one to ride.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#93

Post by tathougies »

stevejb wrote: post #88
tathougies wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Golden gate transit buses are public buses paid for by tax payer dollars and fares, like every other bus system. They are not private systems. What an odd time we live in, when being proud of our public civil infrastructure gets one labeled an elitist. Should I be ashamed of our schools as well?

I think it is reasonable to point this out. When I lived in Seattle, I took the express buses between Seattle and Redmond on a daily basis. They sound like the ones that you describe. However, the buses within the city of the Seattle were a completely different situation. Messy, smelly, and often carrying people who could be upsetting or at least make you feel uncomfortable. Taking a bus originating from the second-w…

But the government funding these systems is the same -- the state of California.

Also, the Marin system still deserves commendation. First of all, while it is a rich county, there is still a large wealth gap. There is a substantial number of obviously poorer people on the buses as well. Some routes mainly serve disadvantaged areas. Yet, the buses serve everyone, and people still want to ride them. And they're still pretty nice. Why punish people who may already be struggling with an awful bus ride?

Secondly, the counties to the south of San Francisco are pretty darn rich (probably richer than Marin, TBH), and their public transit options suck. I spent many years in south bay, and despite all the money people throw around there, the bus system was awful.

There are certainly poorer areas in the United States where the main factor limiting adoption and tech improvements is a lack of funding. However, there are also plenty of really rich counties (in California at least) where the lack of a good bus system is simply due to a complete unwillingness to invest in good public infrastructure.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#94

Post by edaemon »

ravitation wrote: post #23
Dwolb wrote: post #3

I love the bus because it runs express from my Chicago neighborhood directly into the loop. I get on, play with my phone, and get off 25 minutes later. I don't have to fight traffic driving myself and I can multi-task if I choose. The problem comes when trying to take the bus to any other part of the city. It's slow, stops at every block, and is unpredictable when it arrives. It's a mode of transport that supports ev…

Exactly this. When I moved to Portland (from NYC, unfortunately), I hoped that I would have access to the MAX, but if not then I'd be able to take the bus to work. I ended up being about 20 blocks from the nearest MAX stop, but there was a bus stop right outside my apartment. I took the bus maybe a dozen times before I realized that it really is a non-option; what takes me ~15 minutes (20 on a extremely rare bad day)…

Part of Portland's problem is that its transit is built to move people into and out of downtown. Very little of it is built to move people between neighborhoods or across routes. That's somewhat understandable since downtown is the most common destination, but plenty of people (like you) end up without many options.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#95

Post by gascan »

dmitrygr wrote: post #22

I keep hearing a lot of anti-car sentiment on HN, and a lot of claims that cities with good public transit are wonderful. Amsterdam is often cited as an example. So I decided to find out for myself. I went there. It convinced me more than ever that I will always prefer car/uber/lyft to public transit. Wait, hear me out. Yes, buses and bikes were wonderful. But, they do not stop at my door, and they do not stop at whe…

Cars are more convenient; no one contests this point.

But they come at significant cost, and these costs are also often opaque.

People advocating for public transit are often motivated by things like walkable downtowns, more compact neighborhoods, reduced public spending on roads, less traffic, and fewer parking lot oceans. Perhaps additionally public health, climate change, or air quality.

I think ultimately it's not about how public transit is itself so amazing; it's really more about the city you could have, if cars & car infrastructure were not so dominant.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#96

Post by kd0amg »

cgy1 wrote: post #74

I find it much more intimidating to take buses versus rail. For example, unlike most rail systems, buses will skip stops unless a passenger requests that the bus make a stop. Well, when I'm riding the bus for the first time or at night, it's quite easy to miss when I should request a stop. Meanwhile, if I take a train, I know the stations will stop at every station in its route and their are prominent signs at each s…

Well, when I'm riding the bus for the first time or at night, it's quite easy to miss when I should request a stop.

I always thought it odd that MBTA buses announce the stop they're currently passing (too late to ask the driver to stop there) rather than saying which stop is coming up next.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#97

Post by dragonwriter »

tathougies wrote: post #93
stevejb wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is reasonable to point this out. When I lived in Seattle, I took the express buses between Seattle and Redmond on a daily basis. They sound like the ones that you describe. However, the buses within the city of the Seattle were a completely different situation. Messy, smelly, and often carrying people who could be upsetting or at least make you feel uncomfortable. Taking a bus originating from the second-w…

But the government funding these systems is the same -- the state of California. Also, the Marin system still deserves commendation. First of all, while it is a rich county, there is still a large wealth gap. There is a substantial number of obviously poorer people on the buses as well. Some routes mainly serve disadvantaged areas. Yet, the buses serve everyone, and people still want to ride them. And they're still p…

> But the government funding these systems is the same -- the state of California.

No, it's not the same, and though the State of California is among the indirect funders of both, it's not the government directly responsible for either. The government funding GGT is the Golden Gate Bridge, Highway, and Transportation District.

The government funding Muni is the City and County of San Francisco.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#98

Post by kpil »

busterarm wrote: post #66
komali2 wrote: post #7

Me: I would ride the bus if it was available more than once every 30 minutes. At this point it's faster for me to Uber. City councilmember: why should we allocate even more funds to the busses? Nobody's riding them!

God I would love it Manhattan banned Uber and all non-commercial traffic (exile all civilian traffic to the highways and parking garages alongside them) and upped the number of buses. Clean new yellow cabs too and tougher requirements to drive them (raise the fares, I don't care).

It kind of works for Venice, it's so nice to be in a car free town with a slow but nice public transport (the vaporettos) so I started to dream about if it would be possible to a similar thing with buses, combined with the existing subway and trams, and just exile all cars.

The thing is that where I live, the bus network is heavily funded and I'm suspecting that it's probably operating already with too little efficiency most of the day and most lines - basically a lot of buses driving around nearly empty at times.

Since I bike in the city, I can't fail to notice that buses also seems to generate most of the dust, if not all of it - sometimes you basically have to stop and wait a few minutes if you are biking behind a bus, since it's not possible to neither see or breathe. Even on an at least nominally clean tarmac road. I haven't noticed that behind a Nissan Micra.

Further, large diesel engines running heavy start-stop duty cycles like buses probably generates unproportionally more particles than just about everything else.

Since this city have one of the highest count of both PM10 and PM2.5 - source could be either oil or dust - this also have got me thinking.

Where I live, the focus on buses is driven by a political agenda - basically the environmentalists and the left have defined buses as "good" and cars as "bad" - and I suspect regardless of any facts in the matter, exemplified in an interview where one politician admitted that they'd really love to ban cars even if the had no environmental impact at all.

I'm not particularly fighting for more cars and less buses, but I like my facts straight before implementing public policy. I haven't been able to find any official published statistics in fuel consumption per passenger mile for the public transport in the region - should be somewhat trivial to calculate now that every passenger conveniently carries a tracking device with them.

I also haven't been able to find any studies about particle emissions for buses and if it's possible to find any correlation between the ratio of buses to other traffic and particulates.

Unfortunatly, I suspect that research on topics like those is probably heretical and a thought crime in most Universities' departments for environmental studies.

Still, electric buses on the larger streets instead of vaparettos on the Grand Canal is a lovely thought.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#99

Post by vilmosi »

Reason077 wrote: post #85
Endama wrote: post #5

I suspect the uncomfortable truth behind a lot of the problems regarding public transit isn't the transit itself, but the passengers. If you had the choice of riding a public bus with a large collection of the public or paying a few bucks and selecting a preferred subset of the ridership (e.g. chariot in SF, uber, lyft, etc.) I think most will choose the non-bus option to feel comfortable during their ride. I'm not s…

Here in London, bus ridership has also been in decline for a few years now. But it's pretty clear the reasons are: 1) the rise of Uber and friends, 2) improvements to the Tube and Rail networks (new trains, better service frequency, longer operating hours, etc), and 3) the increase in popularity of cycling. Yes, sometimes there are weird people on the bus who might make you feel uncomfortable. Yes, sometimes the bus…

Honestly, I don't think London buses have the same problems as US buses.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#100

Post by stevejb »

tathougies wrote: post #93
stevejb wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is reasonable to point this out. When I lived in Seattle, I took the express buses between Seattle and Redmond on a daily basis. They sound like the ones that you describe. However, the buses within the city of the Seattle were a completely different situation. Messy, smelly, and often carrying people who could be upsetting or at least make you feel uncomfortable. Taking a bus originating from the second-w…

But the government funding these systems is the same -- the state of California. Also, the Marin system still deserves commendation. First of all, while it is a rich county, there is still a large wealth gap. There is a substantial number of obviously poorer people on the buses as well. Some routes mainly serve disadvantaged areas. Yet, the buses serve everyone, and people still want to ride them. And they're still p…

http://time.com/money/3014512/richest-wealthiest-highest-inc...

It seems that there aren't many counties richer than Marin. And, a large wealth gap may just mean, there are some rich people, and some really rich people. Are the "obviously poorer people" still on iPhone 6's and 2015 MacBooks? (ok that part is sarcasm).

The point is, if you are getting the bus in Marin county, you are getting on the bus with others who are also in Marin county. That is going to heavily bias the experience because of the people, not the quality or cleanliness of the bus.

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