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Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

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Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#51

Post by dbasedweeb »

jstanley wrote: post #43
dmitrygr wrote: post #22

I keep hearing a lot of anti-car sentiment on HN, and a lot of claims that cities with good public transit are wonderful. Amsterdam is often cited as an example. So I decided to find out for myself. I went there. It convinced me more than ever that I will always prefer car/uber/lyft to public transit. Wait, hear me out. Yes, buses and bikes were wonderful. But, they do not stop at my door, and they do not stop at whe…

If your bike doesn't stop at your door or doesn't go where you want to go, you're using it wrong. I bought an electric bicycle recently after years of being a staunch car supporter. I am now convinced that the electric bicycle is the perfect mode of personal transport for non-rural areas. It takes up hardly any room, it doesn't make much noise, it doesn't go fast enough to be a danger to anyone, it doesn't get stuck…

It's personal transport of the future. Everyone should get one.

In warm and dry parts of the world with good roads. You try biking in Toronto in the winter! Some people also understand that roads are dangerous, and being hit by a car when you’re on a bike is very bad news.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#52

Post by CM30 »

rdl wrote: post #30
Endama wrote: post #5

I suspect the uncomfortable truth behind a lot of the problems regarding public transit isn't the transit itself, but the passengers. If you had the choice of riding a public bus with a large collection of the public or paying a few bucks and selecting a preferred subset of the ridership (e.g. chariot in SF, uber, lyft, etc.) I think most will choose the non-bus option to feel comfortable during their ride. I'm not s…

Absolutely. What I don’t know is if the problem is a small number of very bad actors who could probably be blacklisted, or the average “co-rider tolerability” of a larger number of people (such that it would require a whitelist).

I'm not sure the issue is either. Yes, there are some bad actors that everyone would rather not travel with for various reasons (those who are aggressive/commit various crimes on public transport for example), but then there's a much larger group that each individual might not get along with or tolerate, and that's a large part of the reason private cars and Uber type services are preferred when available. People's preferences are different, and bus/train services are always going to be a compromise in that aspect.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#53

Post by peterwwillis »

dmitrygr wrote: post #38
peterwwillis wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, what about bicycles does not allow them to go to your door or where you want to go?

Biking in freezing rain isn't wonderful either

There's always rain gear...

But I'm already working on it, actually. Rentable covered trikes and quadricycles with electric motors and storage. Slim enough to fit two to three units per road lane. Capable of multiple trips across town up steep hills before needing to be recharged, and remaining light enough to pedal (the default mode being lightly assisted power). Tow trailers and rear sidecars are an option, too.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#54

Post by _delirium »

rdl wrote: post #29

The challenge here is riding the bus is inferior in convenience and comfort, fundamentally, vs other options. Unless price (likely by eliminating any subsidies for other methods; today even a $0 bus fare would still not be enough) or other features (bypassing traffic) make up for it, why would a rational person take the bus? There are probably places on the margin where buses are more acceptable right now (in a downt…

I've been in a number of cities where I don't find buses inferior. For me it's even often my personally preferred means of transit, though I've of course ridden my share of poor buses too.

The good case is when they're: frequent, run on arterial routes (no meandering), don't stop excessively often, have routes designed to avoid big bottlenecks like left-turn waits (or have strategically placed bus-only bypasses for those trouble spots), stop in the rightmost travel lane rather than in pullout bays that require merging back into traffic, and have a streamlined payment system (the last two combining to give low dwell times at stops). Doesn't even have to be BRT, but let's say halfway to BRT.

Two cities with those kinds of buses that I've personally experienced recently: Washington, DC, which has nice arterial routes up/down main roads like Massachusetts Ave and 16th St, and Copenhagen, which has a network of "A bus" [1] routes.

[1] https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-bus (in Danish)

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#55

Post by rdl »

CM30 wrote: post #52
rdl wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. What I don’t know is if the problem is a small number of very bad actors who could probably be blacklisted, or the average “co-rider tolerability” of a larger number of people (such that it would require a whitelist).

I'm not sure the issue is either. Yes, there are some bad actors that everyone would rather not travel with for various reasons (those who are aggressive/commit various crimes on public transport for example), but then there's a much larger group that each individual might not get along with or tolerate, and that's a large part of the reason private cars and Uber type services are preferred when available. People's p…

A fun experiment would be to take a bus line with 20 buses and rather than a uniform $2 fare, do identical buses with a each bus charging one of $0, $1, $5, $10, $50 fares. (Maybe also experiment with something other than just farebox fare — some buses are $50/mo unlimited rides, some are $50 for 10 prepaid rides, etc)

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#56

Post by sabareesh »

Similar to lyft line we want these services to be convenient to the passengers at the same time there is a pool. Based on location and time we might need to change size of the bus and also reduce the number of stops. Unless this is solved no one is going to use it nor going to be profitable

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#57

Post by jstanley »

dbasedweeb wrote: post #51
jstanley wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your bike doesn't stop at your door or doesn't go where you want to go, you're using it wrong. I bought an electric bicycle recently after years of being a staunch car supporter. I am now convinced that the electric bicycle is the perfect mode of personal transport for non-rural areas. It takes up hardly any room, it doesn't make much noise, it doesn't go fast enough to be a danger to anyone, it doesn't get stuck…

It's personal transport of the future. Everyone should get one. In warm and dry parts of the world with good roads. You try biking in Toronto in the winter! Some people also understand that roads are dangerous, and being hit by a car when you’re on a bike is very bad news.

Fair points. Where I live there is actually a very good network of cycle paths.

But I didn't even know they existed until after I got the bike and started planning routes for journeys.

Even if the cycling infrastructure near you is unsuitable, there are still lots of people in places that do have good cycling infrastructure but either don't realise it or just haven't tried it.

Those people should strongly consider trying out an ebike!

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#58

Post by SilasX »

s2g wrote: post #39
SilasX wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can do bus-only lanes though. Ideally, also toll the roads high enough so that the traffic is never backed up. (And, even more ideally, have no toll when when the road is below capacity.)

Force the middle class out of the city, give them shitty transit options, then tax the hell out of them when they decide to drive. Wonderful.

The idea is that the bus wouldn't be shitty if it weren't having to compete on equal terms with the rest of the choked traffic.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#59

Post by et-al »

dmitrygr wrote: post #22

I keep hearing a lot of anti-car sentiment on HN, and a lot of claims that cities with good public transit are wonderful. Amsterdam is often cited as an example. So I decided to find out for myself. I went there. It convinced me more than ever that I will always prefer car/uber/lyft to public transit. Wait, hear me out. Yes, buses and bikes were wonderful. But, they do not stop at my door, and they do not stop at whe…

> But, they do not stop at my door, and they do not stop at where I want to go. Sometimes they stop close, sometimes a few blocks away.

I think it's reasonable to expect a commuter to walk 4-5 blocks on either end of a ride unless they happen to be handicapped. And winter jackets, boots, and umbrellas are available for the conditions you've mentioned.

No one is saying we should ban private cars from cities. Those will be needed, but they should definitely not be the default mode of transportation for most urban dwellers.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#60

Post by busterarm »

stevehawk wrote: post #19
Endama wrote: post #5

I suspect the uncomfortable truth behind a lot of the problems regarding public transit isn't the transit itself, but the passengers. If you had the choice of riding a public bus with a large collection of the public or paying a few bucks and selecting a preferred subset of the ridership (e.g. chariot in SF, uber, lyft, etc.) I think most will choose the non-bus option to feel comfortable during their ride. I'm not s…

No one's going to publicly agree with you, but they all do.

This is exactly why I take the bus outside of peak hours though! In particular the M20 from State St/Whitehall up 8th avenue. The MTA is so stigmatized by people under 50 here where "only crazy people and the elderly take the bus".

I'm guaranteed a nice, quiet ride where I get a seat the whole way. It's a little slower, but not much. Meanwhile, the subway is just about unbearable always.

The tricky part is getting the bus driver to even stop for you if you don't "look like you take the bus". 80% of the time I'll be waving them down at the stop and they'll just blow past it if nobody requests the stop inside.

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