121–130 of 482 posts
Pretend you're a woman and then read the comments on this post. That makes it pretty obvious that one of the reasons women have a hard time feeling welcome in tech is because men don't listen to or empathize with them when they speak about their opinions or perspectives.
Maybe I don't enjoy sports or poker; maybe you don't enjoy sci-fi book readings or craft nights, but chances are we both want learn some new tricks (with free beer and snacks). I suppose the risk there is that it can feel like an obligation -- and I actually had a boss accuse me of networking for my next job by going to tech events.
> Go befriend a girl in your class or company. It’s not creepy. "Honey, there is this random blogger who thinks I should befriend a girl in my company. It's supposedly not creepy or anything. What do you think?" If I didn't care what my wife thinks, I'd still have to think twice and consider the gender-political climate of the modern age. The mere perception of having some intention of wrongdoing can harm you. In all…
Some years ago I participated in a first aid course (these are required around here for many things). One of the others did it as part of retraining after leaving the navy. Problem for him was: He couldn't do any of the practical exercises in a group with women, because it seems the Navy had a sexual harassment problem some time ago and kinda overshot in the "teaching men not to touch women" department. It's of course entirely possible (plausible, even), that this guy had some issues before that, though.
> [If you’re a dude and you’re reading this article] Go befriend a girl in your class or company. It’s not creepy. Include her, ask her for advice, introduce her, learn about her work and her life in the same way you would with any male friend or coworker. If you’re an investor, professor, journalist, or manager, take it on yourself to sponsor a young woman’s career. While I totally agree with this advice, I think th…
> men don't want to even get close to the line of doing something that could be perceived as inappropriate Yeah I am wondering why someone would stick their neck out, especially if they have below-average social skills. Lots of personal liability for little personal gain, and #MeToo just publicized the existing uneasiness with professional interactions. It's not like any women helped when I was evaluating a career in…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I just don’t see how that could be. When I was studying, we had 2 girls in a peer group of roughly 90 people. All they had to do to find a lab partner is have a pulse. Interestingly, both have graduated, and neither is using her degree now.
> All they had to do to find a lab partner is have a pulse. Eh, that sounds a bit like those lab partners may have had dubious motivations. I figure it's on those of us who strive for the highest degree of professionalism to take the lead on inclusion.
A: Dudes, go befriend a girl, include her! It's not creepy!
B: My anecdata experience suggests girls in my lab, where they were in minority, had no problem being included if they wished to, dudes were very eager to do it.
C: Motivations of those dudes sound very dubious and creepy!
Yup, yup.
http://quillette.com/2018/02/15/sex-stem-stubborn-facts-stub...
Many fields have demographic skews, and many of these are a result of preferences, some in favor of women, even in highly technical areas. (And these can change over time for non-nefarious reasons.) No-one you should take seriously thinks men are somehow biologically anointed to be "superior." However, no one you should take seriously thinks men and women are biologically identical blank slates, particularly if that is really motivated by an ideological feel-good story.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKmyO3hbOz8
Part 2: As a profession, computer engineering is perceived to be [X]
There is some important kernel of truth to this. I've known women who can code, but who definitely don't want to, including my wife who actually feels sorry for me whenever she tries to imagine what my day is like. Furthermore, I would say that there aspects of the culture of programming which act to degrade its meritocracy, and some of those are culturally skewed against women. I don't think that an attitude of witch-hunt and inquisition is the way to do that, however. Rather, I think the kind of discussion which James Damore thought he was going to have when he penned his memo is the solution. Note that this is entirely independent of what he said in his memo -- the kind of discussion he reportedly imagined would happen.
As jdavis notes below, accounting and book keeping employ more women than men. Computer programming was once seen as a preferred career for women in the very early days. I suspect that there's a common thread here, which is mediated by culture and social factors. One which is not nefarious, and one which would be useful to figure out.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your quote agrees with you. Women are underrepresented in tech compared to other industries.
I think the point is there are only so many women to go around, so to have more women in tech we need to pull women out of fields where they are overrepresented like nursing, teaching etc. Maximum diversity is not "100% women in every field". It's 50% women in every field. Women should be underrepresented relative to nursing, because they're vastly overrepresented in nursing.
> [If you’re a dude and you’re reading this article] Go befriend a girl in your class or company. It’s not creepy. Include her, ask her for advice, introduce her, learn about her work and her life in the same way you would with any male friend or coworker. If you’re an investor, professor, journalist, or manager, take it on yourself to sponsor a young woman’s career. While I totally agree with this advice, I think th…
This is exactly how I am, but it has nothing to do with the #metoo movement. The reason is because I discovered at a young age that girls didn't want a ugly boy talking to them. It makes them uncomfortable, and as a result, it makes me uncomfortable.
So in my mind, avoiding attractive women is being polite.
Something nobody will admit is that "creepy" is really 90% based on the looks of a person, and 10% what they are doing. People aren't comfortable with the idea of an unattractive person potentially having a romantic interest in them (regardless of whether they do or not).
edit: My horrible solution to the issue of a lack of women in tech is to get more conventionally attractive men in tech. More guys like in that Napa photo and less ones like that chubby, 1980s stereotype one.
Most of the theories I've seen about the women-in-tech gap don't resonate with my experience because there was a very obvious 'women-in-tech' gap in about... 5th grade? in my (typical, I think) American elementary school. It was nerdy boys, almost entirely (I remember one exception), who wanted to stay after school playing games on the iMacs in our classroom, and I am pretty sure that it would only be the boys in my…
Girls aren't interested in playing games?