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A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech
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Re: A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech
#112> [If you’re a dude and you’re reading this article] Go befriend a girl in your class or company. It’s not creepy. Include her, ask her for advice, introduce her, learn about her work and her life in the same way you would with any male friend or coworker. If you’re an investor, professor, journalist, or manager, take it on yourself to sponsor a young woman’s career. While I totally agree with this advice, I think th…
> men don't want to even get close to the line of doing something that could be perceived as inappropriate
Yeah I am wondering why someone would stick their neck out, especially if they have below-average social skills. Lots of personal liability for little personal gain, and #MeToo just publicized the existing uneasiness with professional interactions. It's not like any women helped when I was evaluating a career in nursing.
Re: A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
Note the pay on those careers. "Women's Careers" pay significantly less. And they're all 'emotional' and 'soft skill' jobs. That's a problem. Edit: So, at -3 currently. Is the -1's a "disagree" or "stfu"? Please state where I am wrong.
Why these jobs pay less? That is capitalism at work. Tech jobs are now essential to maintain competitive edge and keep the big profits going at companies, and they want to bid up to get good talent. Even small barely surviving companies have to pay good $ to get developers etc. because of the market forces. OTOH lets take a daycare teacher. They are being paid ultimately from the money average people have left over h…
The market is not a meritocracy.
Re: A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech
#114> Go befriend a girl in your class or company. It’s not creepy. As an unattractive computer nerd, I've been regularly reminded my entire life that I am creepy. Skipping.
I have a talented, and wonderful, female dev on my team. One thing though:. She has described to me some of the male coders as being "creepers". When I asked for specifics, she couldn't provide them. She simply stated it was a "feeling". The one commonality I found with the creepers is that they are pretty clearly below average in looks. The question is whether this is a correlation or a casual factor. But definitely…
I think some of "creepy" is lack of responsiveness to social cues. Creeps are men whom you don't trust to take "no" for an answer and men whom you don't trust will ask in the first place instead of just taking (ogling, touching, rape).
There are geeks and bros and attractive and unattractive men in both columns; but geeks who aren't good at decoding and reacting appropriately to subtle social cues tend to trigger this reaction more often than bros whose social facility masks an underlying lack of respect for bodily and emotional autonomy.
Re: A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech
#115> Go befriend a girl in your class or company. It’s not creepy. As an unattractive computer nerd, I've been regularly reminded my entire life that I am creepy. Skipping.
You're conflating attraction and friendship. Being creepy means that you seem to have unwelcome intentions. If you're saying that your attractiveness is the reason you've been told you're creepy, the reason for your creepiness is that your intentions are to attract someone, not to befriend them. Fix your intentions if you don't want to be creepy. And listen, I'm not saying you shouldn't want to attract someone, just…
There is no reason to assume GP was motivated by that intention, in whatever situation you're imagining. You do so from a position of privilege.
Re: A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech
#116Pretend you're a woman and then read the comments on this post. That makes it pretty obvious that one of the reasons women have a hard time feeling welcome in tech is because men don't listen to or empathize with them when they speak about their opinions or perspectives.
> men don't listen to or empathize with them when they speak about their opinions or perspectives.
The comments I've seen are on par with comments on other posts where the author was male. The fact that someone disagrees with the cause of some statistical result is not the same as not listening.
Re: A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech
#117Are the rest of the STEM career paths seen as more social than CS? Is mathematics more social than CS? Because CS is almost (not quite: physics is almost as bad) unique among STEM specializations for its gender disparity. I talk regularly to academic math people (because cryptography) and the sense I have is that if anything, CS is far more social than the work they do --- to get anything significant done in technolo…
Big difference to me is how does the core work get done. If it’s like coding where you need zero distraction time and actively have to turn off socially, it becomes less appealing. As a former PM turned dev, the difference is striking in how isolated the work can require you do be.
Re: A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech
#118> [If you’re a dude and you’re reading this article] Go befriend a girl in your class or company. It’s not creepy. Include her, ask her for advice, introduce her, learn about her work and her life in the same way you would with any male friend or coworker. If you’re an investor, professor, journalist, or manager, take it on yourself to sponsor a young woman’s career. While I totally agree with this advice, I think th…
JFC. If you're afraid of accidentally harassing or molesting someone I think you have the wrong idea of how to interact with people.
Re: A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech
#119> [If you’re a dude and you’re reading this article] Go befriend a girl in your class or company. It’s not creepy. Include her, ask her for advice, introduce her, learn about her work and her life in the same way you would with any male friend or coworker. If you’re an investor, professor, journalist, or manager, take it on yourself to sponsor a young woman’s career. While I totally agree with this advice, I think th…
You don't get to check out because you are a jerk and are afraid you won't be able to stop being a jerk.
You have to try HARDER because you are PRIVILEGED to be part of the majority.
This applies to race, culture, whatever. Just because you suck at social skills (hello HN!) doesn't mean you get to check out and not try.
In fact if you are reading this and making excuses on why you don't have to make an effort, YOU ARE THE ONE WHO NEEDS TO MAKE THE MOST EFFORT.
The fact that men can't interact with women without making them feel excluded is the whole point of this whole thing.
You have to include women, POC, trans people, regardless of if you are capable of it. You. Have. To. Do. This.
Or you are a fascist. Full stop.
Frankly this whole male ego "I can't stop myself" excuse is bull hockey. Get with it nerds.
Re: A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech
#120Are the rest of the STEM career paths seen as more social than CS? Is mathematics more social than CS? Because CS is almost (not quite: physics is almost as bad) unique among STEM specializations for its gender disparity. I talk regularly to academic math people (because cryptography) and the sense I have is that if anything, CS is far more social than the work they do --- to get anything significant done in technolo…
In some sense yes. I don't have the stats at hand, but women who study math are very n likely doing so because they want to become math teachers which I would say leans social.