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A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech

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Re: A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech

#31

Post by throwaway84742 »

chrisseaton wrote: post #15
throwaway84742 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just don’t see how that could be. When I was studying, we had 2 girls in a peer group of roughly 90 people. All they had to do to find a lab partner is have a pulse. Interestingly, both have graduated, and neither is using her degree now.

> I just don’t see how that could be. I'm not sure what you mean? Why would the women be inherently attractive as lab partners? Many men in the lab would probably think that the women would be weaker, or wouldn't know how to interact with them, so wouldn't want them as lab partners. And the men may have a higher chance of knowing each other already from outside the class in sports teams and fraternities, so they woul…

Why would they be “weaker”? I don’t get what you’re trying to say.

Re: A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech

#32

Post by walshemj »

ghaff wrote: post #16
Symmetry wrote: post #4

I notice that the big decline in female enrollment in CS came around the time the Hollywood stereotype of a computer programmer changed from a well-intentioned labcoated professional whose creation might have gotten a bit out of control to a basement dwelling hacker carrying out a solo fight against the bullies, the man, etc.

Which also corresponded to home PCs and gaming consoles becoming common. So computers became more about a hobby with often limited social interaction as opposed to being solely about something that college students and adults pursuing computing as a profession did. Which arguably also led to this idea that if you haven’t been doing computing recreationally since you were a kid you obviously are not Passionate enough…

I have to admit if you only started programming after you went to University your going to struggle with the course and afterwards work.

You would not expect to do a Degree in English lit and have done no reading of the cannon before getting to university.

Re: A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech

#33

Post by rectang »

throwaway84742 wrote: post #7
jandrese wrote: post #5

Interesting that popular perception is that it is hard to be a woman in STEM because you get so much unwanted attention, but in this case it was exactly the opposite. She wasn't able to find lab partners for projects in male majority classes and felt lonely.

I just don’t see how that could be. When I was studying, we had 2 girls in a peer group of roughly 90 people. All they had to do to find a lab partner is have a pulse. Interestingly, both have graduated, and neither is using her degree now.

> All they had to do to find a lab partner is have a pulse.

Eh, that sounds a bit like those lab partners may have had dubious motivations.

I figure it's on those of us who strive for the highest degree of professionalism to take the lead on inclusion.

Re: A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech

#34

Post by [deleted] »

princekolt wrote: post #19
throwaway84742 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just don’t see how that could be. When I was studying, we had 2 girls in a peer group of roughly 90 people. All they had to do to find a lab partner is have a pulse. Interestingly, both have graduated, and neither is using her degree now.

I have a hard time believing your anecdotal data point about a third person is enough to claim a person exposing their own experiences is wrong.

[deleted]

Re: A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech

#35

Post by throwaway84742 »

slimshady94 wrote: post #14
throwaway84742 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just don’t see how that could be. When I was studying, we had 2 girls in a peer group of roughly 90 people. All they had to do to find a lab partner is have a pulse. Interestingly, both have graduated, and neither is using her degree now.

What is this phenomenon called? I've seen it plenty of times; there must be some research etc on this.

The word you’re looking for is “chivalry”. An outmoded concept in these modern times, but alive and well back then.

Re: A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech

#36

Post by jtchang »

Up till the middle of the article the arguments could be made either way (if we were somehow in a parallel universe and 75% of the CS workforce were females).

The part that got me thinking was whether CS is less social compared to other industries and careers.

I think that is the perception and reality. If by social we mean interaction with other human beings than a lot of the interaction we do is between a human and a computer. Not human to human. Of course there are lots of exceptions but expectations are there as well. The expectation that you are solving a problem as a group or by yourself.

Even in a number of CS programs you can't work together on problems. We have programs that scan your homework to see if you "cheated". Other business classes I took though regularly focused on group projects early on. CS early on is about learning to code and interacting with computers.

Re: A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech

#37

Post by chrisseaton »

throwaway84742 wrote: post #31
chrisseaton wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I just don’t see how that could be. I'm not sure what you mean? Why would the women be inherently attractive as lab partners? Many men in the lab would probably think that the women would be weaker, or wouldn't know how to interact with them, so wouldn't want them as lab partners. And the men may have a higher chance of knowing each other already from outside the class in sports teams and fraternities, so they woul…

Why would they be “weaker”? I don’t get what you’re trying to say.

I don't think they would be weaker - where do you think I said I thought that?

But lots of men definitely do think women are likely to be weaker in computer science. I don't know why they think that - you'd have to ask them?

Re: A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech

#38

Post by adrianratnapala »

modbait wrote: post #2

> Go befriend a girl in your class or company. It’s not creepy. As an unattractive computer nerd, I've been regularly reminded my entire life that I am creepy. Skipping.

Awkwardly, StreamBright and ninkendo are both right. My best advice about threading the needle is to concentrate on processes rather than goals.

Don't worry about befriending anyone; but recognise that you have a little leeway to make small-talk to any human before it becomes odd. Use it (with everyone) for practice at getting funnier and more charming. Have fun practicing, let results take care of themselves.

Something similar goes for becoming less "unattractive". Don't worry about your body shape, but learn to enjoy exercise (perhaps you do this already). Or with fashion and personal grooming, figure out what you like and so develop your personal style as you bathe and dress each day.

Re: A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech

#39

Post by shmerl »

jdavis703 wrote: post #8

The first part of this had great citations to cite that women are more social. Where the data was lacking is that 1) software is perceived as anti-social and 2) that other anti-social careers face similar problems to software engineering. For example if socialization was such a critical decider, why are some many women maids or professional housekeepers? Most people in this career don't get much on-the-job socializat…

> Most people in this career don't get much on-the-job socialization. Or what about accounting and book keeping; which is a professional, white collar career that also happens to employ more women than men?

Another question would be, why in the early days of computing, programming was predominantly seen as women's work? Does it mean its social factor changed somehow?

See: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/computer-programmi...

Re: A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech

#40

Post by jochung »

scrollaway wrote: post #9
StreamBright wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dont give up, learn the basics of human interactions and get interested in people, your life will change.

People who do that get regularly called creepy for just trying to talk to women. You're telling someone not to give up on the very thing getting them called out as "a creep". Hell in some countries, you get called creepy for doing that for trying to befriend anyone outside of very specific social situations. When I was in Stockholm, approaching strangers and striking up a conversation was seen as generally rude.

Yep. For an ideology that seems extremely concerned about how words like "chairman" or "craftsmanship" are perpetuating harmful gender biases, feminists sure never seem to notice that "creep" and "coward" are implicitly male.
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