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Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

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Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#91

Post by nimbix »

hiram112 wrote: post #86
dep_b wrote: post #2

I'm working for years as a developer building iOS applications. Apple got so strict the last months maybe last year it's just incredible. Lots of questions about monetization and background services, they really want you to have a solid business case for background location or just don't use it. As a consumer I'm happy they take those steps though. My privacy is worth money. Either somebody sells it and gives me a "f…

>Either somebody sells it and gives me a "free" OS or somebody sells me an OS and I don't "sell" my privacy. Don't forget the Windows 10 model: You're forced to buy the OEM version on any new PC, and then you still get your privacy sold by MS.

The last time I checked it was still possible to buy a computer without Windows, as well as buy Windows that can be transferred between machines. Most people just don't bother with that.

Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#92

Post by AstralStorm »

simonh wrote: post #89
ksk wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It is also hypocritical for privacy advocates to purchase products from China. If you take Apple out of the argument for a second, thats quite a complex case. I think you can have two positions "we don't compromise on privacy" and "were trying to improve the situation the best way we know how". Under #2, you could make the argument that buying a general purpose tool such as a computer made in china, and using it to…

If it’s possible to buy the computer elsewhere and choose not to, it’s hypocritical.

Well. In that case you get to skip most of Intel. Minor parts like capacitors and resistors are also almost completely made in China fabs.

You will have to be extremely particular and thorough to get rid of all chibese products.

Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#93

Post by SEJeff »

gruez wrote: post #87
SEJeff wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are actually three relatively viable alternatives: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AppArmor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomoyo_Linux https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smack_(software) All three implement MAC (mandatory access control) similar to SELinux, but the context bits in SELinux are pretty much standalone for information assurance (DoD Rainbow book series has more info). Note my username comes from my SELinu…

sorry, I meant to say that it's trivial to switch to another vpn firewall app, but it's much harder to switch from selinux to apparmor.

Ah I misunderstood. You're 100% correct sir.

Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#94

Post by princekolt »

SEJeff wrote: post #67
princekolt wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While the concept is good, I'd be extremely concerned of using any third party VPN service, free or paid. You are basically trusting your entire internet usage to a single entity, and I think this is way too risky. One alternative is setting up a raspberry-pi at home running pi-hole and OpenVPN. While it is still not risk-free, it is still better than one centralized entity taking everyone's traffic. On the other han…

It is not actually a vpn. It is a glorified /etc/hosts 127.0.0.1 null route app. It doesn't send any traffic over any real VPN, so your worry isn't a thing.

This is better than what I expected. However, unless the code is public and the user can audit that the app store version is the same as the one in the public source, there's no way to be sure the entity is not capturing user data through some shady way.

And let me be the first to recognize the app store model makes auditing the app extremely difficult.

Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#95

Post by Steko »

ksk wrote: post #61
Someone1234 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Explain what with China? Apple are legally required to follow the law of countries they do business in. In China the law requires that the government, not third party apps, gains access to additional information. Apple can limit third party app privacy violations while still following the law. The only stand Apple could take here is: - Stop selling in China - Have executives go to jail Just as if they violated US law…

That is a poor argument. "Selling" a product is not a principle or a virtue that one is required to comply with. Protecting the privacy of users is. Being non-discriminatory is. What if they had to do business in a country that forbids gay people from working? Using your logic - "Oh well they had to fire all their gay employees to just follow the law". Its hypocritical of Apple to suggest they truly care about privac…

Your logic is bonkers. Not every principle or virtue is a hill that every inch is worth dying over. The US and EU (and pretty much every other country) also have many laws and regulations that are not privacy friendly. You claim this means they should close up shop (or only sell to seasteaders) if they are a true privacyman? It's a recycled version of the 'Al Gore has a big house' joke, guess he's doesn't really care about the environment. Heyo!

Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#96

Post by ksk »

Steko wrote: post #95
ksk wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a poor argument. "Selling" a product is not a principle or a virtue that one is required to comply with. Protecting the privacy of users is. Being non-discriminatory is. What if they had to do business in a country that forbids gay people from working? Using your logic - "Oh well they had to fire all their gay employees to just follow the law". Its hypocritical of Apple to suggest they truly care about privac…

Your logic is bonkers. Not every principle or virtue is a hill that every inch is worth dying over. The US and EU (and pretty much every other country) also have many laws and regulations that are not privacy friendly. You claim this means they should close up shop (or only sell to seasteaders) if they are a true privacyman? It's a recycled version of the 'Al Gore has a big house' joke, guess he's doesn't really care…

If people simply admitted that Apple (like many others) will compromise on their privacy principles in exchange for commercial gain - we would never have been having a conversation on this topic. People want to hold Apple to a higher standard.. maybe thats also part of the problem.

Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#97

Post by tzahola »

UncleMeat wrote: post #47
Rjevski wrote: post #13

Finally. I wish third-party analytics would be next. A lot of apps are using analytics from companies who’s business model is inherently incompatible with privacy (Facebook & Google) and that concerns me.

Should all developers be required to write analytics themselves?

Not my problem.

Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#98

Post by jacquesm »

nimbix wrote: post #91
hiram112 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Either somebody sells it and gives me a "free" OS or somebody sells me an OS and I don't "sell" my privacy. Don't forget the Windows 10 model: You're forced to buy the OEM version on any new PC, and then you still get your privacy sold by MS.

The last time I checked it was still possible to buy a computer without Windows, as well as buy Windows that can be transferred between machines. Most people just don't bother with that.

Good luck with that. Even though it is possible it is much harder than just to ignore the problem and pay the Microsoft tax. And if you're going to buy a computer without windows why would you then buy Windows separately, that's much more expensive, and people that go out of their way to buy machines without Windows likely don't run Windows at all.

Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#99

Post by simonh »

AstralStorm wrote: post #92
simonh wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it’s possible to buy the computer elsewhere and choose not to, it’s hypocritical.

Well. In that case you get to skip most of Intel. Minor parts like capacitors and resistors are also almost completely made in China fabs. You will have to be extremely particular and thorough to get rid of all chibese products.

Exactly, it’s not a reasonable position to take.

Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#100

Post by __jal »

ksk wrote: post #61
Someone1234 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Explain what with China? Apple are legally required to follow the law of countries they do business in. In China the law requires that the government, not third party apps, gains access to additional information. Apple can limit third party app privacy violations while still following the law. The only stand Apple could take here is: - Stop selling in China - Have executives go to jail Just as if they violated US law…

That is a poor argument. "Selling" a product is not a principle or a virtue that one is required to comply with. Protecting the privacy of users is. Being non-discriminatory is. What if they had to do business in a country that forbids gay people from working? Using your logic - "Oh well they had to fire all their gay employees to just follow the law". Its hypocritical of Apple to suggest they truly care about privac…

And what, US law just magically happens to be properly balanced, unlike the legal systems elsewhere?

Following your logic, every single company in the US is either ethically aligned with US law or horrible, awful hypocrites. Apparently there are no other possibilities.

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