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Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

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Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#71

Post by kilo_bravo_3 »

ksk wrote: post #61
Someone1234 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Explain what with China? Apple are legally required to follow the law of countries they do business in. In China the law requires that the government, not third party apps, gains access to additional information. Apple can limit third party app privacy violations while still following the law. The only stand Apple could take here is: - Stop selling in China - Have executives go to jail Just as if they violated US law…

That is a poor argument. "Selling" a product is not a principle or a virtue that one is required to comply with. Protecting the privacy of users is. Being non-discriminatory is. What if they had to do business in a country that forbids gay people from working? Using your logic - "Oh well they had to fire all their gay employees to just follow the law". Its hypocritical of Apple to suggest they truly care about privac…

It is also hypocritical for privacy advocates to purchase products from China.

Their purchases directly fund a regime opposed to their moral positions, either through taxes and duties or payments to the many thousands of firms (like COSCO) that are controlled wholly or in part by the Chinese government or military.

The hypocritical-ness doesn’t go away because corporations are larger than individuals, the transaction is in a different direction, or because the moral position is privately-held.

Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#72

Post by crystaln »

AznHisoka wrote: post #12

Does this include apps like Foursquare/Swarm that sell aggregated location data to hedge funds? [1] ...or are the big players exempt from the rules of the game? [1] https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/290543

And Facebook or Google? They certainly track your location without a user centric business case. I don't think ad presentation qualifies.

Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#74

Post by osteele »

SiempreViernes wrote: post #42
maire wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple always took location privacy seriously. I remember an interview between Steve Jobs and Walt Mossberg years ago on this subject. I looked it up again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39iKLwlUqBo

Serious in the sense that they seriously wanted it? July 2010 was when they rolled out their silent tracking of all ios 4 users in an unencrypted database on the device for up to 10 months. In a happy coincidence, a bug ensured that the (presumably untested) feature of turning of location serviced didn't actually prevent the tracking. And of course they never asked users for consent about this, except by putting some…

If Apple intended to collect locations, I would expect them to have recorded GPS (when otherwise enabled), and WiFi RSSI, instead of just cell tower RSSI.

I can imagine theories that include this omission as part of deniability for a cover-up, or from a combination of incompetence and malevolence, but such theories seem overly complicated compared to the assumption of a simple log leak like Twitter's recent password logging bug.

Whether these theories are too complicated depends on your priors about the evil intent of Apple's management and employees. If you already assume they're hypocrites about privacy, the location logging confirms it. I doubt it's convincing otherwise. (It's not convincing to me, unless there's a simpler story that ties it into ill intent, and that I'm just not coming up with.)

Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#75

Post by ksk »

osteele wrote: post #70
ksk wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a poor argument. "Selling" a product is not a principle or a virtue that one is required to comply with. Protecting the privacy of users is. Being non-discriminatory is. What if they had to do business in a country that forbids gay people from working? Using your logic - "Oh well they had to fire all their gay employees to just follow the law". Its hypocritical of Apple to suggest they truly care about privac…

Any good act by a corporation can be explained away as a business strategy. Just as any good act by an individual can be explained away as a means to garner status, or because the individual derives personal satisfaction from either the act or the effects of good behavior. Are you arguing that one must always impute manipulative motives to a corporation? (And should therefore not reward consequentially better behavio…

>Any good act by a corporation can be explained away as a business strategy. Just as any good act by an individual can be explained away as a means to garner status, or because the individual derives personal satisfaction from either the act or the effects of good behavior.

Sure, I would agree that if the outcome is good, then the intention is not relevant. Apple might have a positive effect in China despite compromising on privacy.

>Are you arguing that one must always impute manipulative motives to a corporation? (And should therefore not reward consequentially better behavior, because it must be based on invalid motives?)

I'm saying recognize the hypocrisy instead of constructing weird arguments to justify it.

>Or is your point that Apple is uniquely hypocritical? (And if so, on what evidence?

Certainly not. I said its a common business tactic.

Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#76

Post by abc_lisper »

ksk wrote: post #60
abc_lisper wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Umm. No. I don’t wear the same clothes in a desert and a forest. To do so would be foolish. Imposing yourself on others when you have no power to do is not wise. I can keep my house clean but can’t expect everyone in my neighborhood to do so.

That sounds to me like you're saying Apples core beliefs are simply whatever they fancy depending on the time of the day.

Hmm. Let's consider the forces involved here: 1. Apple makes their hardware in China. 2. Apple sells their hardware in China. 3. If Apple doesn't comply with China, 1 could be affected, not just 2. 4. Apple cannot move their hardware manufacturing to US (now), without losing their competitive edge, because everybody makes their hardware in China.

Do you think if Apple could be privacy oriented in China, it wouldn't? It simply doesn't have the power to do it in China. Don't equate it to Google, FB and numerous others who despite having a chance to be privacy oriented in US, won't.

This is like Cantor's infinities. Sure they are all infinities. But they aren't the same.

Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#78

Post by ksk »

kilo_bravo_3 wrote: post #71
ksk wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a poor argument. "Selling" a product is not a principle or a virtue that one is required to comply with. Protecting the privacy of users is. Being non-discriminatory is. What if they had to do business in a country that forbids gay people from working? Using your logic - "Oh well they had to fire all their gay employees to just follow the law". Its hypocritical of Apple to suggest they truly care about privac…

It is also hypocritical for privacy advocates to purchase products from China. Their purchases directly fund a regime opposed to their moral positions, either through taxes and duties or payments to the many thousands of firms (like COSCO) that are controlled wholly or in part by the Chinese government or military. The hypocritical-ness doesn’t go away because corporations are larger than individuals, the transaction…

>It is also hypocritical for privacy advocates to purchase products from China.

If you take Apple out of the argument for a second, thats quite a complex case. I think you can have two positions "we don't compromise on privacy" and "were trying to improve the situation the best way we know how". Under #2, you could make the argument that buying a general purpose tool such as a computer made in china, and using it to promote privacy is a net benefit, than not having the tool to promote your cause.

Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#79

Post by Johnny555 »

sbhn wrote: post #46

What, is it legitimate companies selling your data? The fear media told me it was hackers.

You must have your head in the sand if you don't see the "fear media" also warning you about legit companies tracking you.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/11/technology/facebook-priva...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-07/even-priv...

https://www.wsj.com/articles/who-has-more-of-your-personal-d...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kalevleetaru/2018/05/03/what-th...

Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#80

Post by SEJeff »

stirner wrote: post #66
SEJeff wrote: post #28

If you're worried about analytics and tracking / ads on your iPhone, consider installing Disconnect's Privacy Pro: https://lifehacker.com/disconnect-pro-eliminates-tracking-on... It costs a few $$, but sets up a VPN profile that is generally always on. It just blocks all of the ads / "web bugs" / analytics stuff and gives you a UI to show how much. Apple cracking down is a good thing, but so is defense in depth. It e…

Disconnect was co-founded by an ex-Google DoubleClick (ad) engineer, and hired an ex-NSA (dragnet surveillance) engineer. There are tracker-blocking adblockers for every platform that aren't made by people with anti-privacy backgrounds.

And SELinux was designed by the NSA due to the 10 years or so of the Flask Security Architecture and made it into Linux. Under your tinfoil hat, does this mean that Linux is totally compromised?
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