Think You’ve Got Your Credit Freezes Covered? Think Again • Hacker News Board

Re: Think You’ve Got Your Credit Freezes Covered? Think Again

#41

Post by drablyechoes » Wed, May 09, 2018, 6:01 PM UTC

jessaustin wrote: post #12

gascan wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I missing something here? Paying cash doesn't prevent the opening of fraudulent lines of credit in your name. Equifax et al don't particularly care if you pay cash, they have some form of record on you either way.

I guess the idea is that if one were "off the grid" enough not to have a phone, one's details wouldn't be in their DB in the first place. That would make one's identity harder to steal, which would cause the thieves to move on to the next victim.

The SSN of someone "off the grid" would actually be perfect for doing what is called synthetic identity fraud. If a given SSN has no credit history, you can make up a fictitious person and apply for a credit card with it. The application is probably declined, but a record of this SSN associated to a completely fictitious identity now exists in the credit reporting agencies databases, which makes it more likely that a future credit application will be approved.

If there is no other identity using this SSN, then the likelihood of the fraudulent activity being dectected is low.

This is why SSNs belonging to elderly people, children/teenagers, and the recently deceased are of relatively higher value for a lot of people out there doing identity fraud.

Re: Think You’ve Got Your Credit Freezes Covered? Think Again

#42

Post by cwkoss » Wed, May 09, 2018, 6:11 PM UTC

PotionSeller wrote: post #29

I absolutely hate our entire credit system, the lazy way it handles our sensitive info, and the eagerness to extend credit to anyone without scrutiny of their identity. Big incoherent rant incoming: In 2016 someone stole my identity and in about a 1 month period took out tens of credit cards and new bank accounts and phone account which they immediately over drafted. They somehow managed to change the address in my c…

I wonder if anyone has ever successfully sued a credit reporting agency for defamation when the agency reports information about fraudulent accounts.

Seems like it would be very easy to demonstrate damages.

Re: Think You’ve Got Your Credit Freezes Covered? Think Again

#43

Post by logfromblammo » Wed, May 09, 2018, 6:13 PM UTC

TechieKid wrote: post #39

PotionSeller wrote: post #29

I absolutely hate our entire credit system, the lazy way it handles our sensitive info, and the eagerness to extend credit to anyone without scrutiny of their identity. Big incoherent rant incoming: In 2016 someone stole my identity and in about a 1 month period took out tens of credit cards and new bank accounts and phone account which they immediately over drafted. They somehow managed to change the address in my c…

The answer is registered mail, return receipt requested, and a complaint with the CFPB, although how on-the-ball that agency will be since the new administrator was appointed is YMMV.

I'd be more inclined to write a pro forma letter, then sue for statutory damages for technical violations under the FCRA and/or FDCPA the instant the established deadlines pass. It puts the burden of proving the validity of the debts on them, and if they ignore you or drag their heels, you win by default.

Re: Think You’ve Got Your Credit Freezes Covered? Think Again

#44

Post by pmiller2 » Wed, May 09, 2018, 6:19 PM UTC

teddyh wrote: post #10

reaperducer wrote: post #5

Bottom line: Whenever possible, wherever possible, pay cash. I used to laugh at my father-in-law whom I once considered to be a conspiracy theory whackjob with his off-the-grid lifestyle. As more and more of his "crazy" insights turn into New York Times headlines, I'm starting to think he was ahead of the curve.

Stallman was right: I never pay for anything on the Web. Anything on the net that requires payment, I don't do. (I made an exception for the fees for the stallman.org domain, since that is connected with me anyway.) I also avoid paying with credit cards . For freedom's sake, insist on paying cash. When a business pressures you to pay in an identified way, that means your help as a citizen is needed: say, "If you won'…

Good luck buying a house or a car with cash. I know he's specifically referring to things on the internet, but, I'm sure, Stallman being Stallman, he would say you should follow this rule offline as well.

Re: Think You’ve Got Your Credit Freezes Covered? Think Again

#45

Post by mieseratte » Wed, May 09, 2018, 6:28 PM UTC

Deinos wrote: post #27

gascan wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I missing something here? Paying cash doesn't prevent the opening of fraudulent lines of credit in your name. Equifax et al don't particularly care if you pay cash, they have some form of record on you either way.

Exactly. As long as you have a SSN and other identification out there, you are a potential target...

Well, you can't go fully off-the-grid but it makes things a little easier if you're monitoring:

* Lack of history makes successful applications less likely

* Lack of history makes fraud stand out, any activity is fraud

* Since fraud has been identity theft, meaning I have to bitch-and-moan, lack of utilization of credit lends to a stronger story which can help convince folks whereas a serial debtor makes for a less sympathetic and less convincing victim.

Additionally, you have less risk of compromise:

* That website can't leak my CC details

* That skimmer can't capture my CC details

* That waiter[0] can't clone my card

I went full-cash, even paying for a utilities-included apartment. It also seems to cause me to keep a bit better track of my spending. Easier to overspend when your balance is a number in the cloud somewhere.

[0] - Depends on country, e.g. the US frequently has waitstaff take your card to a terminal

Re: Think You’ve Got Your Credit Freezes Covered? Think Again

#46

Post by pmiller2 » Wed, May 09, 2018, 6:29 PM UTC

cwkoss wrote: post #42

PotionSeller wrote: post #29

I absolutely hate our entire credit system, the lazy way it handles our sensitive info, and the eagerness to extend credit to anyone without scrutiny of their identity. Big incoherent rant incoming: In 2016 someone stole my identity and in about a 1 month period took out tens of credit cards and new bank accounts and phone account which they immediately over drafted. They somehow managed to change the address in my c…

I wonder if anyone has ever successfully sued a credit reporting agency for defamation when the agency reports information about fraudulent accounts. Seems like it would be very easy to demonstrate damages.

AFAIK, they just aggregate whatever is reported to them. Without any sort of editorial discretion, it doesn't seem likely you could go after them for any damages.

Re: Think You’ve Got Your Credit Freezes Covered? Think Again

#47

Post by emodendroket » Wed, May 09, 2018, 6:54 PM UTC

pishpash wrote: post #22

Dirlewanger wrote: post #15

It's all so tiring. It's seriously going to be decades until we get politicians in power that understand the Internet and start holding companies accountable that don't give a shit about security (namely, all of them).

You are misreading it as an understanding issue. There are plenty of things politicians don't understand and there are experts for that, or else the country doesn't run. The impetus is never understanding, but power. Until there is political impetus for them to care, they don't.

Also, most issues that become contested in the US at present have some sort of powerful business interest on both sides. There isn't a constituency for credit bureau accountability that has the resources for anyone to care.

Re: Think You’ve Got Your Credit Freezes Covered? Think Again

#48

Post by emodendroket » Wed, May 09, 2018, 6:56 PM UTC

teddyh wrote: post #10

reaperducer wrote: post #5

Bottom line: Whenever possible, wherever possible, pay cash. I used to laugh at my father-in-law whom I once considered to be a conspiracy theory whackjob with his off-the-grid lifestyle. As more and more of his "crazy" insights turn into New York Times headlines, I'm starting to think he was ahead of the curve.

Stallman was right: I never pay for anything on the Web. Anything on the net that requires payment, I don't do. (I made an exception for the fees for the stallman.org domain, since that is connected with me anyway.) I also avoid paying with credit cards . For freedom's sake, insist on paying cash. When a business pressures you to pay in an identified way, that means your help as a citizen is needed: say, "If you won'…

Well, I think paying with a credit card is pretty good, because I get more protections than if I had paid with cash. If it weren't for the pell-mell system of credit and particularly identity verification I think otherwise it would be a pretty good system.

Re: Think You’ve Got Your Credit Freezes Covered? Think Again

#49

Post by jstarfish » Wed, May 09, 2018, 6:59 PM UTC

drablyechoes wrote: post #41

jessaustin wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess the idea is that if one were "off the grid" enough not to have a phone, one's details wouldn't be in their DB in the first place. That would make one's identity harder to steal, which would cause the thieves to move on to the next victim.

The SSN of someone "off the grid" would actually be perfect for doing what is called synthetic identity fraud. If a given SSN has no credit history, you can make up a fictitious person and apply for a credit card with it. The application is probably declined, but a record of this SSN associated to a completely fictitious identity now exists in the credit reporting agencies databases, which makes it more likely that a…

Stealing someone else's unused SSN is not synthetic identity creation, it's just fraud. There is a living person associated with that SSN, even if they are off the grid.

Synthetic identity fraud involves you making a bunch of inquiries with completely fake SSNs and squatting on them for a few years, maybe bringing them out of cold storage every so often to make a few more inquiries to keep them on the credit-building radar before you ultimately qualify for actual lines of credit and do a bust-out. There is no oblivious meatbag being used as a patsy-- the identities are completely fake, which is what makes them synthetic.

Re: Think You’ve Got Your Credit Freezes Covered? Think Again

#50

Post by hex1848 » Wed, May 09, 2018, 7:13 PM UTC

I am tired of people calling me a "victim" of identity theft. I'm not the victim. The companies and government agencies that allowed themselves to be defrauded by someone posing as me are the victims. If you didn't do your due diligence in properly verifying the identity of the person you handed out cash, goods or services too it's on you. That being said, the entire system is broken. I've had 5 cellphones taken out in my name, I've had multiple credit cards opened using my social security number. I've been interviewed by a special agent with the State Department because someone tried to get a passport using my data. I'm sick of dealing with other peoples fraud problems. Fix it already!