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Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

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Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#41

Post by chimeracoder »

walterbell wrote: post #36
chimeracoder wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Any downside to using a common SSID, https://www.wigle.net/stats#ssidstats ? From the documentation, it's not clear to me if apps have permission to see either other nearby SSIDs or the names of other networks that the device has previously connected to. If the app has access to either one of those, it's equivalent to being given location data. Furthermore, last I checked, both iOS and Android broadcast the list of…

Whoa.. why do random routers need my SSID location history? Is that list removable by “forgetting” all the previous networks?

> Whoa.. why do random routers need my SSID location history? Is that list removable by “forgetting” all the previous networks?

It's how the standard currently works and what enables fast reconnection. IIRC, the device sends out all available SSIDs, at the router responds with the one(s) it's able to use to connect.

I agree that this is backwards, and I'd rather have slightly slower WiFi reconnection in exchange for better privacy. I don't know what the OS-level behavior is if you delete all previous networks. I assume it works, but I haven't tested it.

Oh, and for what it's worth, this isn't just for mobile devices. Your laptop probably does it too. In fact, OS X has an annoying habit of connecting to WiFi networks in the background even when the laptop is closed and asleep, which means it's doing this broadcasting behavior as long as the WiFi setting is turned on.

Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#42

Post by SiempreViernes »

maire wrote: post #5
EADGBE wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're positioning themselves to this space. It was interesting in the sense that it never was really marketed this way (by Apple); it was just the remainder product that didn't sell out your information. It's always good to sell a "feature" you've always had which costs you nothing.

Apple always took location privacy seriously. I remember an interview between Steve Jobs and Walt Mossberg years ago on this subject. I looked it up again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39iKLwlUqBo

Serious in the sense that they seriously wanted it? July 2010 was when they rolled out their silent tracking of all ios 4 users in an unencrypted database on the device for up to 10 months. In a happy coincidence, a bug ensured that the (presumably untested) feature of turning of location serviced didn't actually prevent the tracking.

And of course they never asked users for consent about this, except by putting something in the end of their 15000 word EULA.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/apr/20/iphone-tr...

https://www.wired.com/2011/04/iphone-tracks/

Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#43

Post by walterbell »

chimeracoder wrote: post #41
walterbell wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whoa.. why do random routers need my SSID location history? Is that list removable by “forgetting” all the previous networks?

> Whoa.. why do random routers need my SSID location history? Is that list removable by “forgetting” all the previous networks? It's how the standard currently works and what enables fast reconnection. IIRC, the device sends out all available SSIDs, at the router responds with the one(s) it's able to use to connect. I agree that this is backwards, and I'd rather have slightly slower WiFi reconnection in exchange for…

This thread claims it’s only hidden SSIDs that are broadcast:

https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/244171/ios-10-warn...

Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#44

Post by Fradow »

MBCook wrote: post #24
Rjevski wrote: post #13

Finally. I wish third-party analytics would be next. A lot of apps are using analytics from companies who’s business model is inherently incompatible with privacy (Facebook & Google) and that concerns me.

The speculation is this is GDPR motivates, hopefully it will cause a crackdown on that stuff too. The fact Apple added a framework to help with analytics (IIRC) may be the first step towards REQUIRING people to only use that framework instead of 3rd party stuff so they can be sure it’s compliant with laws/Apple’s policies as well.

GDPR doesn't regulate anonymous data. Unless you put PII in your analytics (not the default, and you really shouldn't) you won't have a problem.

As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure part of Google Analytics response to GDPR is "Don't put PII in there if you want to be GDPR compliant" (they are providing tools for compliance though).

Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#45

Post by Fradow »

dep_b wrote: post #2

I'm working for years as a developer building iOS applications. Apple got so strict the last months maybe last year it's just incredible. Lots of questions about monetization and background services, they really want you to have a solid business case for background location or just don't use it. As a consumer I'm happy they take those steps though. My privacy is worth money. Either somebody sells it and gives me a "f…

Do you know if they need a solid business case even if it is optional? For example, any idea if an optional "locate your device" feature would get shot down?

Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#47

Post by UncleMeat »

Rjevski wrote: post #13

Finally. I wish third-party analytics would be next. A lot of apps are using analytics from companies who’s business model is inherently incompatible with privacy (Facebook & Google) and that concerns me.

Should all developers be required to write analytics themselves?

Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#48

Post by dep_b »

Fradow wrote: post #45
dep_b wrote: post #2

I'm working for years as a developer building iOS applications. Apple got so strict the last months maybe last year it's just incredible. Lots of questions about monetization and background services, they really want you to have a solid business case for background location or just don't use it. As a consumer I'm happy they take those steps though. My privacy is worth money. Either somebody sells it and gives me a "f…

Do you know if they need a solid business case even if it is optional? For example, any idea if an optional "locate your device" feature would get shot down?

Yes. I had a location tracking feature that would total your mileage automatically and submit it after your ride to your bookkeeper (this is mandatory for lease cars in some countries). I really had to explain that the app also might be backgrounded because people probably would be using Apple Maps to navigate while this thing was clocking away in the background

Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#50

Post by ghostly_s »

Jerry2 wrote: post #8
parthdesai wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Explain China then. Apple is being hypocritical in this case. Giving in to the demands of government when it hurts their business ( if it did take privacy as seriously as HN makes it out to be, they would take a stand in China) while advocating privacy in Western world.

Like every business operating in China, Apple has to comply with local laws. And that's what they do. Everyone else who operates in China complies with them as well. Apple also complies with US laws and laws of EU.

Operating in China is a choice every one of these companies makes.
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