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The environmental impact of technology devices is getting worse

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Re: The environmental impact of technology devices is getting worse

#31
post #4

The math is pretty poor in this article. Information and Communication Tech represents only 3% of global carbon emissions, and most of that is from giant server farms. This other article states that the embodied CO2 in a cellphone is roughly equivalent to 1kg of beef. That's like three steaks. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/green-living-blog/20... The bigger emissions problems around electricity generation a…

But manufacturing a smartphone involves a lot of transportation and electricity, doesn't it? Our focus should also be on cutting energy spendings & reducing transportation, and stop buying new phones (and laptops and tvs etc..) every now and then sure will help, will it not?

Or we could reduce meat consumption.

Re: The environmental impact of technology devices is getting worse

#32
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But manufacturing a smartphone involves a lot of transportation and electricity, doesn't it? Our focus should also be on cutting energy spendings & reducing transportation, and stop buying new phones (and laptops and tvs etc..) every now and then sure will help, will it not?

Or we could reduce meat consumption.

I suspect its long past the day when a marginal change in consumption will actually affect the world, even a little. The production of meat (and phones) does not change at all for small adjustments in demand - they are far too large an industry with far too large a lead time to respond to much at all.

In fact, using homebrew solutions or alternative sources actually increases my environmental footprint. Now I'm not only wasting the goods that were created in preparation for me (phone, meat etc), I'm consuming more goods from an alternative source that is small and can more readily adjust for demand, which it does, by providing for me. Which has a further non-zero environmental impact.

So in the short turn (year over year) its actually best to consume only the mainstream sources of goods since their marginal cost is about zero. Whether that seems tragic or efficient is up to the reader.

Re: The environmental impact of technology devices is getting worse

#33
post #4

The math is pretty poor in this article. Information and Communication Tech represents only 3% of global carbon emissions, and most of that is from giant server farms. This other article states that the embodied CO2 in a cellphone is roughly equivalent to 1kg of beef. That's like three steaks. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/green-living-blog/20... The bigger emissions problems around electricity generation a…

But manufacturing a smartphone involves a lot of transportation and electricity, doesn't it? Our focus should also be on cutting energy spendings & reducing transportation, and stop buying new phones (and laptops and tvs etc..) every now and then sure will help, will it not?

That presumably includes the transportation and electricity (probably not transportation to the point of sale after manufacture, but that emits even less CO2 according to the article). Remember, we're talking about small, light, high-value goods; transportation isn't going to be a big problem here, compared to say 1kg of beef.

Re: The environmental impact of technology devices is getting worse

#34
post #5

Seems like the easiest fix would be to mandate the same charging cable for all phones (no dongles) and user replaceable batteries that require no tools to change. With those two simple tweaks it would be much easier to keep a phone for 3 or more years. My google pixel seems like it could easily last for many years with it's quad core, 128GB storage, 4GB ram, and 2560x1440 display. Lets be honest, for most uses that's…

Pixel phones are end of life already. They were only guaranteed android updates for two years after 2016. This is another problem we have to overcome.

https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/4457705?hl=en

I have a 6p. It works great after a battery replacement, but Android P wont run on it.

Re: The environmental impact of technology devices is getting worse

#35
Two things not mentioned:

1. OS support (android at least) isn't that long. I suppose security patches are more important and might be worth fighting for somehow (extended security patch plans?).

2. i sometimes hear how repair shops have a hard time sourcing oem parts (having to go to chinese frankenparts which may be confiscated at the border). this should not be an issue and should work just like the car industry.

Re: The environmental impact of technology devices is getting worse

#36
post #4

The math is pretty poor in this article. Information and Communication Tech represents only 3% of global carbon emissions, and most of that is from giant server farms. This other article states that the embodied CO2 in a cellphone is roughly equivalent to 1kg of beef. That's like three steaks. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/green-living-blog/20... The bigger emissions problems around electricity generation a…

But manufacturing a smartphone involves a lot of transportation and electricity, doesn't it? Our focus should also be on cutting energy spendings & reducing transportation, and stop buying new phones (and laptops and tvs etc..) every now and then sure will help, will it not?

The greatest myth in sustainable energy policy is "every little helps". We get caught up on visible but irrelevant things, while ignoring massive systemic problems.

Apple publish high-quality, audited environmental impact reports for all their products. A 64gb iPhone 8 produces the equivalent of 57kg of CO2 across the entire product lifespan, from manufacturing to recycling.

A return flight from LAX to JFK produces ~580kg of CO2; the climate impact is equivalent to ~1100kg of CO2, because emissions at altitude have a greater warming effect.

Driving 10,000 miles in a typical sedan or crossover SUV emits about 3000kg of CO2; in a large pickup like a Ford F150, that figure is closer to 4500kg.

The food consumption of the average US household results in equivalent CO2 emissions of 8100kg.

Our carbon emissions are dominated by heating and cooling, transport and food. Keeping your phone for another couple of years is a rounding error in the scheme of things - it's equivalent to a two-hour car journey or a good restaurant meal. If we are to stand any chance of limiting the impact of climate change, we need to make big, difficult choices about our lifestyle.

We need to massively reduce the amount we drive and fly. We need to redesign homes to require less active heating and cooling. We need far more sustainable electricity generation. We need to radically alter our diets and our approach to agriculture, with far less meat and dairy consumption. This will be difficult, expensive and politically unpopular, but it's the only way we'll make a meaningful impact.

https://images.apple.com/environment/pdf/products/iphone/iPh...

https://calculator.carbonfootprint.com/calculator.aspx?tab=3

http://css.umich.edu/factsheets/carbon-footprint-factsheet

https://www.withouthotair.com/

Re: The environmental impact of technology devices is getting worse

#37
I wish I could use my phones longer than I already do. Unfortunately, the lack of software updates for older hardware turns that into a security risk as even critical issues are no longer getting fixed.

Likewise, the 'modern' web breaks things left and right. The heavy use of JavaScript for trackers etc makes it impossible to read even simple news web sites on an old iPad, even though the actual content is just static text. With Discourse and similar platforms gaining popularity, I'm getting locked out from more parts of the web unless I have up to date hardware. I don't understand why web forums became such complex beasts that a device capable of streaming video, realtime sound synthesis and 3D gaming is not sufficient to display what is essentially just text and some images.

HN is a positive exception, I sincerely hope it remains that way.

Re: The environmental impact of technology devices is getting worse

#38
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or we could reduce meat consumption.

I suspect its long past the day when a marginal change in consumption will actually affect the world, even a little. The production of meat (and phones) does not change at all for small adjustments in demand - they are far too large an industry with far too large a lead time to respond to much at all. In fact, using homebrew solutions or alternative sources actually increases my environmental footprint. Now I'm not o…

The market is not insensitive to consumer demand. Your choices don't make a significant impact, but the aggregate choices of all consumers is hugely significant. If we buy less meat and lobby for a reduction in agricultural subsidies, the inevitable result is a reduction in meat production, either through a direct response from producers or through the bankruptcy of less efficient producers.

Re: The environmental impact of technology devices is getting worse

#39
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recycling just isn't a substitute; it's far less effective. You're supposed to reduce, reuse, and then , if neither is possible, recycle... in that order.

Recycling a phone can mean reusing many of its components for repairing other phones (as part of the fourth R: refurbishing).

What good is a refurbished but old iPhone these days when there is no more software for it? Even when you're lucky enough to have backup copies of older software versions, the web APIs most rely on have been discontinued.

Re: The environmental impact of technology devices is getting worse

#40
post #37

I wish I could use my phones longer than I already do. Unfortunately, the lack of software updates for older hardware turns that into a security risk as even critical issues are no longer getting fixed. Likewise, the 'modern' web breaks things left and right. The heavy use of JavaScript for trackers etc makes it impossible to read even simple news web sites on an old iPad, even though the actual content is just stati…

I think you're safe, HN is too hip to change.
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