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Bitcoin Sees Wall Street Warm to Trading Virtual Currency

nytimes.com

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Re: Bitcoin Sees Wall Street Warm to Trading Virtual Currency

#111

Post by throwawaylolx »

hudon wrote: post #108
throwawaylolx wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>. In other words, how much energy are we willing to spend without a beneficial use case? That's quite a statement. Did you mean without beneficial use cases that you personally know of? Example I posted somewhere in this thread: https://www.forbes.com/sites/ktorpey/2017/12/31/bitpesa-ceo-...

The only indication that Bitcoin might be better than incumbents is this line: "According to Rossiello, it’s still the fastest and easiest way for her to pay her lawyer in San Francisco and developers in Europe." The hint at her anecdote not holding true in the general case comes right after: "While BitPesa is still happy with Bitcoin for now, Rossiello did note that it’s annoying that on-chain transactions have beco…

>That's hardly a convincing case for Bitcoin being the better alternative for payment

It obviously is for the CEO who continues to use Bitcoin despite the annoyances, so I'm not really following your logical leaps, nor do I have the energy to chase you through your goalpost moving. You said there are no beneficial uses, and I provided you with one example.

Re: Bitcoin Sees Wall Street Warm to Trading Virtual Currency

#112

Post by hudon »

throwawaylolx wrote: post #111
hudon wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only indication that Bitcoin might be better than incumbents is this line: "According to Rossiello, it’s still the fastest and easiest way for her to pay her lawyer in San Francisco and developers in Europe." The hint at her anecdote not holding true in the general case comes right after: "While BitPesa is still happy with Bitcoin for now, Rossiello did note that it’s annoying that on-chain transactions have beco…

>That's hardly a convincing case for Bitcoin being the better alternative for payment It obviously is for the CEO who continues to use Bitcoin despite the annoyances, so I'm not really following your logical leaps, nor do I have the energy to chase you through your goalpost moving. You said there are no beneficial uses, and I provided you with one example.

I'm looking for evidence that Bitcoin is better suited than alternatives. Your example is a CEO who is not sure herself but who is currently trying to make it work... but is ready to leave Bitcoin if it doesn't change soon. She said herself that if Bitcoin doesn't change, the alternatives are better and there will be a "mass exodus". That literally proves my point.

You can say that I said "beneficial use cases" and show me that you can actually send money using Bitcoin. But that's like me showing you a 5-wheeled car and saying "see, you can get from A to B in a 5-wheeled car therefore a fifth wheel is beneficial". That's not sufficient and the CEO of BitPesa seems painfully aware of this.

Re: Bitcoin Sees Wall Street Warm to Trading Virtual Currency

#113

Post by throwawaylolx »

hudon wrote: post #112
throwawaylolx wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That's hardly a convincing case for Bitcoin being the better alternative for payment It obviously is for the CEO who continues to use Bitcoin despite the annoyances, so I'm not really following your logical leaps, nor do I have the energy to chase you through your goalpost moving. You said there are no beneficial uses, and I provided you with one example.

I'm looking for evidence that Bitcoin is better suited than alternatives . Your example is a CEO who is not sure herself but who is currently trying to make it work... but is ready to leave Bitcoin if it doesn't change soon. She said herself that if Bitcoin doesn't change, the alternatives are better and there will be a "mass exodus". That literally proves my point. You can say that I said "beneficial use cases" and…

If Bitcoin is not better suited than alternatives, why is the CEO still using it despite their complaints?

Re: Bitcoin Sees Wall Street Warm to Trading Virtual Currency

#114

Post by hudon »

throwawaylolx wrote: post #113
hudon wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm looking for evidence that Bitcoin is better suited than alternatives . Your example is a CEO who is not sure herself but who is currently trying to make it work... but is ready to leave Bitcoin if it doesn't change soon. She said herself that if Bitcoin doesn't change, the alternatives are better and there will be a "mass exodus". That literally proves my point. You can say that I said "beneficial use cases" and…

If Bitcoin is not better suited than alternatives, why is the CEO still using it despite their complaints?

Maybe she's hoping that Bitcoin improves before she needs to change the core of their system and value proposition, which would cost a lot of time and money? Who knows?

Re: Bitcoin Sees Wall Street Warm to Trading Virtual Currency

#115

Post by throwawaylolx »

hudon wrote: post #114
throwawaylolx wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Bitcoin is not better suited than alternatives, why is the CEO still using it despite their complaints?

Maybe she's hoping that Bitcoin improves before she needs to change the core of their system and value proposition, which would cost a lot of time and money? Who knows?

Then it sounds like Bitcoin is the best suited solution for her situation.

Re: Bitcoin Sees Wall Street Warm to Trading Virtual Currency

#116

Post by hndamien »

notahacker wrote: post #79
hndamien wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I am suggesting that the only problem here is accounting. If you have a price on carbon, the rest will sort itself out. The lack of this cost being accounted for creates the false equilibrium where we plunder the environment to efficiently meet our needs within an otherwise well designed economic system - that is only made better by Bitcoin.

I think when you have a technology which creates the same amount of power demand as all the people and industry in Peru, and rewards people for locating this demand in the part of the world with the cheapest dirtiest coal fired power and zero energy tax, it's disingenuous in the extreme to pretend it's not a huge part of the problem because hypothetical global carbon taxes might solve wider problems. Crypto mining is…

I think you will need a citation for "one of the chief motivating factors behind crypto currency adoption has the idea of being able to avoid things like carbon taxes and energy quotas".

The chief motivating factor is a fair economic system.

By your logic anything energy intensive industry should be stopped because of the pollution it causes. Say goodbye to the Steel industry, Aluminium industry, Chemical industry, Textile Industry, Copper industry. https://www.ecofys.com/files/files/ecofys-fraunhoferisi-2015...

I guess this comes down to the fact you think it is more pragmatic, sensible, likely and beneficial to have Bitcoin miners stop mining. I think it is more pragmatic, sensible, likely and beneficial to have a price on carbon.

Re: Bitcoin Sees Wall Street Warm to Trading Virtual Currency

#117

Post by DINKDINK »

mvindahl wrote: post #42
DINKDINK wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Advantages of gold over bitcoin: If there's a total internet && computer && electricity apocalypse, a physical barter exchange with gold is more trustless than bitcoin. You can still transact bitcoin but there's trust involved. Advantages of Bitcoin over gold: No trusted third party (If you're moving sizable sums of gold, you're doing it with a trusted third party[TTP)) 99.99226%[1] transaction uptime (Your TTP keep…

Further advantages of gold over bitcoin: 1) Has been used for millennia. Bitcoin was invented ten years ago. 2) Accepted as valuable by most of human population. Bitcoin mostly as valuable within internet echo bubbles. 3) Although price fluctuates, it's more stable than that of bitcoin, thus better suited as store of value. 4) Has applications for industrial uses or for jewelry, guaranteeing that your gold retains at…

>Although price fluctuates, it's more stable than that of bitcoin, thus better suited as store of value.

Price fluctuations are not what you care about with a store of value. What you care about is the elasticity of supply with respect to price. If the market price of gold increases, the production of it will increase (though to a lesser degree of other commodities). Bitcoin's supply curve is programmed with time as the only input. This means that no matter the change in price, supply cannot increase. This is a coup de grâce against every other existing store of value.

>4) Has applications for industrial uses or for jewelry, guaranteeing that your gold retains at least a base value. Same cannot be said of prime number data structures.

You don't want a store of value to have a myriad of other uses because those uses influence the price of the store of value. Say that 'Beautanium' becomes a more popular substance use for jewelry. Now Gold loses value. The only metric you care about in a store of value is the change in supply vs the available supply. This is Bitcoin's killer app, This is why it has value.

Re: Bitcoin Sees Wall Street Warm to Trading Virtual Currency

#118

Post by mvindahl »

DINKDINK wrote: post #117
mvindahl wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Further advantages of gold over bitcoin: 1) Has been used for millennia. Bitcoin was invented ten years ago. 2) Accepted as valuable by most of human population. Bitcoin mostly as valuable within internet echo bubbles. 3) Although price fluctuates, it's more stable than that of bitcoin, thus better suited as store of value. 4) Has applications for industrial uses or for jewelry, guaranteeing that your gold retains at…

>Although price fluctuates, it's more stable than that of bitcoin, thus better suited as store of value. Price fluctuations are not what you care about with a store of value. What you care about is the elasticity of supply with respect to price. If the market price of gold increases, the production of it will increase (though to a lesser degree of other commodities). Bitcoin's supply curve is programmed with time as…

> If the market price of gold increases, the production of it will increase (though to a lesser degree of other commodities).

Yet the total amount of gold on this planet is finite, and as the millennia have passed, it has become increasingly expensive to dig it out of the ground. These are the same properties that people laud in bitcoin.

> Bitcoin's supply curve is programmed with time as the only input

As far as I am informed, bitcoin mining farms also tend to be connected to the power grid. May be just to keep the soft drink vending machine running. Dunno.

> This is a coup de grâce against every other existing store of value.

Limited supply is by no means unique to bitcoin. Gold and real estate share the same properties.

Re: Bitcoin Sees Wall Street Warm to Trading Virtual Currency

#119

Post by AKifer »

Funny to see that despite all the negative voices against bitcoin, these people still advance theirs pawns and play the game. I seriously think that there's a perverse move behind the walls to instill fear to the commoners towards the cryptocurrencies though the media; until all the pie is eaten. Then in a matter of days they will flip all these negative opinions and show bitcoin as the new messiah on earth.

Re: Bitcoin Sees Wall Street Warm to Trading Virtual Currency

#120

Post by solean »

tobiaswk wrote: post #55

In all fairness the Bitcoin, BTC, is currently close to unusable and scales very bad. It quickly gets oversaturated with transaction and transaction fees rise quick. I think the conspiracy has come full circle. Those who slowly "threw sand in its engine" has done a great job. Why are transaction fees low today? Because no one, or a lot less, is using BTC. I know some will label me as a conspiracist. I've been followi…

I find it hilarious that you claim no one is using BTC but lots of people are using BCH. Dogecoin does more transactions than BCH.
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