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Google Duplex: An AI System for Accomplishing Real World Tasks Over the Phone

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Re: Google Duplex: An AI System for Accomplishing Real World Tasks Over the Phone

#111

Post by fixermark »

guiomie wrote: post #71
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #4

Never have we had a more clear example of why Google needs to be regulated, and laws against what they're doing needs to be passed. The fact that they think it's okay to have bots pretending to be human making phone calls, shortly after demonstrating how quickly they can copy someone's voice (re: John Legend), it shows a blatant disregard for what they're creating.

How would you handle deepfakes? This is much more disturbing than what is in the post, and it isn't a corporation who built it. I don't think this has anything to do with regulating google.

To be perfectly honest, I've always personally been surprised at what business people are willing to transact over the low-bandwidth media of the telephone. I've heard plenty of stories of people pretending to be celebrities and getting away with stuff on the phone; I don't need a sophisticated computer to do that for me.

If a real problem of deep-fakes in phone conversations emerges, people will just raise the bar of authentication in phone communications. There's nothing magical about telephone that makes it exempt from the general need to protect against social engineering.

Re: Google Duplex: An AI System for Accomplishing Real World Tasks Over the Phone

#113

Post by fixermark »

jonknee wrote: post #34
politician wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just wait until a Google Duplex caller "on behalf of a client" calls to schedule a reservation at a restaurant using Google Duplex to answer the phones.

The most inefficient API you could design!

I think Neal Stephenson would make the case that we started down that inefficiency road when we replaced telegraph signal with voice in the first place. ;)

https://www.wired.com/1996/12/ffglass/

Re: Google Duplex: An AI System for Accomplishing Real World Tasks Over the Phone

#114

Post by ocdtrekkie »

fixermark wrote: post #109
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #4

Never have we had a more clear example of why Google needs to be regulated, and laws against what they're doing needs to be passed. The fact that they think it's okay to have bots pretending to be human making phone calls, shortly after demonstrating how quickly they can copy someone's voice (re: John Legend), it shows a blatant disregard for what they're creating.

Given the two technologies you've highlighted, what specific regulation would you recommend be added to prevent what bad behavior?

In the short/immediate term, it should probably be illegal to conduct a robocall without explicit opt-in of the destination caller. (Currently, if you get a non-telemarketed robocall, it is solicited, such as you scheduled an appointment and they are reminding you of it.)

Furthermore, if a robocall is permitted to be made to an unsolicited destination, a robocaller must clearly identify itself, presumably starting a declaration that it is a bot/automated agent from a given company on behalf of another company or individual.

And if the call is recorded in any way, shape, or form, the terms of service would need to be presented to the callee, giving them the chance to accept or deny said terms. (Note that if the example calls at I/O were not staged, and real calls, I suspect the recording of them would be illegal in many jurisdictions, including California.)

Re: Google Duplex: An AI System for Accomplishing Real World Tasks Over the Phone

#115

Post by [deleted] »

arikr wrote: post #5

This is amazing! I'm very excited for a future where more and more tasks can be automated, enabling humans to get higher and higher living standards with the same/fewer input resources. In short, technology is a wonderful thing that allows very low marginal costs. This is what we need to make the future a better place, given a consistent or growing population. "Technology is miraculous because it allows us to do more…

[deleted]

Re: Google Duplex: An AI System for Accomplishing Real World Tasks Over the Phone

#116

Post by rhizome »

542458 wrote: post #13

This is going to be awesome/terrible for social engineering attacks. We'll be training millions of people to to trust phone calls from "Google". But are you talking to Google-calling-on-behalf-of-your-boss, or Google-calling-on-behalf-of-some-phisher? Or better yet, some custom system that pretends to be Google over the phone? Who knows!

And without some indicator of attribution, this is just doubling down on the problem of Caller ID spoofing.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/06/your-money/robocalls-rise...

Re: Google Duplex: An AI System for Accomplishing Real World Tasks Over the Phone

#117

Post by lifeformed »

politician wrote: post #49
detaro wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if they detect that and solve whatever task it is directly then.

It'd be trivial to detect if they transmit high-frequency noise over the line, and then fallback to DTMF tones.

That'd be a creepy conversation to listen in on. "Ah yes, I see you are a robot too." Proceeds to transmit data through dial-up-esque noise

Re: Google Duplex: An AI System for Accomplishing Real World Tasks Over the Phone

#118

Post by themacguffinman »

jeremiahwv wrote: post #56

And then the salon and the restaurant start using Duplex as well, and all phone conversations become Google talking to Google. How bout: "Hey Duplex, call this support number and get a top level human manager on the line please." Then we get a HN article: "Duplex is fighting Alexa!"

Duplex vs Alexa rap battle!

Re: Google Duplex: An AI System for Accomplishing Real World Tasks Over the Phone

#119

Post by uptown »

jbob2000 wrote: post #61
apendleton wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in the demo, the system didn't identify itself as a bot. It pretended (fairly convincingly) to just be a person, and seemed focused on interactions (making a restaurant reservation, etc.) that don't involve someone recognizing your voice. In other words, I don't think the attack surface is any different than situations where you could just place the call yourself, save perhaps for the possibility of scaling…

So now I can script a bot to book restaurant reservations all over the city at busy times. Then nobody shows up for the reservations, the busy time has passed, and customers have moved on or gone home. Restaurants make or break on one or two nights in a month. A calculated social engineering attack like this could bring down hundreds of restaurants in a city, which would cause millions of dollars in lost taxes, and y…

I agree it's a problem. The probably means of mitigation is for restaurants to take your credit card number when you book. Many already do this. I expect it to expand if false bookings become a problem.

Re: Google Duplex: An AI System for Accomplishing Real World Tasks Over the Phone

#120

Post by ryandrake »

criddell wrote: post #105
bduerst wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't that different than all the bad actors calling from the "IRS". Educating people about giving personal details out over the phone has always been a challenge and will continue to be one.

Or maybe we should fix the phone system. Something is terribly broken when my connection to YouTube is better protected and authenticated than when I'm talking to the IRS over the telephone.

You’re only ever talking to the IRS over the phone if you initiate the call. Ideally the phone system gets fixed but that’s likely to not happen any time soon. Now you need to deal with current reality. Nobody should trust that any incoming call, purportedly from a business or government, is from who they say it’s from either verbally or through caller ID.
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