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Conversations with a six-year-old on functional programming

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Re: Conversations with a six-year-old on functional programming

#151
post #3

What is truly astounding about this is the patience to even attempt to explain free theorems to a 6 year old. Most parents would likely answer "math" and that would be the end of it. I don't (yet) have kids, but when I do I hope I have the wherewithal to recognize and take advantage of moments like these.

One thing that makes this easier is being rich. What I mean by that is for example, when my kid is asking me questions or wants to "do it myself!", the fact that I have a flexible schedule helps immensely, and that flexible schedule is possible because I can turn down work that doesn't give me that flexibility. If I had a strict clock-in/clock-out job, and only had limited time to run errands, I'd have a lot less pat…

Maybe it helps being rich, but just as a counter example, my grandfather was never rich. He was a clock-in/clock-out guy and still managed to spend a lot of time with me while I was growing up. He had a lot more patience than most of the "white collar" adults in my life ever did, and taught me lots of useful skills like how to fix a lot of electrical or mechanical things.

Re: Conversations with a six-year-old on functional programming

#152
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I told him that a number X is composite if you can fit X apples into buckets and end up with the same number of apples in each bucket. Wrong; X is composite if you can fit X apples into buckets and end up with the same number of apples in each bucket, with at least two apples in each bucket . "You gotta tell the children the truth. They don't need a whole lot of lies. Cause one of these days, baby, they'll be runni…

Very true, and I did actually explain that to him. In my rush to tell a good story I left out the pedantic part.

We'll forgive you - this time. ;)

Re: Conversations with a six-year-old on functional programming

#153
post #19

Side question: maintenece of functional programs is easier, because you don't need to think about state. Could it be used to create a functional programming language, easily understood by non-programmers or beginners , so they too could take a program and adapt it to their needs ? Does such language exist ?

Maybe Pyret? https://www.pyret.org/

One of the folks behind that is also involved in this:

http://www.bootstrapworld.org

They're claiming to get good results teaching young people a number of important topics, including coding. They're also either using Pyret or planning to use it.

Re: Conversations with a six-year-old on functional programming

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My teenage son is a musician and is taking AP Music Theory right now. I ask him to tell me about what he is learning, and he patiently tries to explain it to me, but I just nod along because I have no idea what he's talking about.

Don't feel bad about that! My dad didn't know what the hell I was talking about when I was learning C++ as a teenager, but he asked anyway because he saw I got excited about it.

My mom certainly does that for me. I try to explain non-intuitive programming concepts to her with analogies, but I don't think I succeed most of the time. I love her dearly for putting up with it, though.

Re: Conversations with a six-year-old on functional programming

#155
post #131
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comment above is condescending and misleading. Being precocious doesn't mean autism, and no professional SLP would "freak out" at an early reader. Being smart is an "abnormality", and autism is not "handicapped general intelligence". Warning signs for autism include obsession with letters and numbers without understanding meaning , not being able to reason about math and discuss mathematical topics.

It isn't misleading or condescending. In fact as a parent of an autist I find your comment to be the condescending one. The person you're responding to didn't say autism was the same as handicapped general intelligence, but that extreme precociousness is often correlated with atypical development in other contexts.

FWIW, to be honest I had autism spectrum disorders in mind, though I certainly don't equate autism with handicapped general intelligence. I intentionally avoided using the term autism (even though some of the best examples I had in mind come from studies on autism spectrum disorders) as it's such a very broad label with different etiologies and different constellations of traits. An autistic child with fragile X syndrome is likely to have many objectively identifiable and severe disabilities, whereas some other child with autism might have few or no disabilities, especially in a more diverse and accommodating society that isn't organized to punish people who don't easily fit into a mold. I wanted to point out that some seemingly desirable trait can actual reflect other, categorically undesirable traits. Such value judgments are especially tricky when label like autism are thrown into the mix, and in any event I wasn't keen to attempt to identify anything in particular as negative.

Back to my original point: there are many more ways for things to go wrong than for things to go right. Similarly, abnormal faculties often coincide with abnormal deficiencies--were it otherwise genetic evolution dictates it wouldn't be abnormal. That basic calculus means that when abnormalities emerge, all things being equal and long before we can know anything about how things will play out individually, it's not rational to be envious or given to feelings of inadequacy, which is precisely what we're doing, intentionally or unintentionally, when we're drawn to stories about precocious behavior.

It was eye opening to come to learn how my spouse as well as other people I've spoken with who have studied various aspects of child development have a very different perspective on abnormal and out-of-order milestone development. At the same time, these are the people least likely to construe debilitating abnormalities in the same negative light as wider society. But they understand 1) the cold, hard calculus and 2) that any abnormality, whether widely construed as positive or negative in society, comes with a real, additional cost in time and attention, particularly for attentive parents who wish to ease their child's transition to independence given the harsh realities of the world. Simply recognizing and internalizing differences so as to avoid confusion later on in life is a real burden on everybody involved.

Re: Conversations with a six-year-old on functional programming

#156
post #45

Brent is one of the greatest teachers I've ever experienced. I used to take classes from him (and TA some others he taught) and was consistently blown away by his enthusiasm and capacity for sharing concepts. He has a great essay on pedagogy as well ( https://byorgey.wordpress.com/2009/01/12/abstraction-intuiti... ) If you're interested in learning some of the beautiful foundations of functional programming, I highly…

This is the text Christopher allen recommended to beginners as the best reference, until he decided to write his own book on Haskell.

After completing that one, he recomended the NICTA github repo https://github.com/data61/fp-course/tree/master/src/Course

Disclaimer: All subject to IIRC

Re: Conversations with a six-year-old on functional programming

#157
This reminds me of when I explained inverse functions to my kids. I was about to teach them to my grade 10 students and I wanted to use the Dr. Seuss book, The Sneetches to give an example. I asked my kids if I could borrow their copy. When they asked me what for, I told them and they ended up asking what inverse functions were. I similarly played a game where I told them what a certain function machine did and they had to come up with a machine that undid what my machine did.

Re: Conversations with a six-year-old on functional programming

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing that makes this easier is being rich. What I mean by that is for example, when my kid is asking me questions or wants to "do it myself!", the fact that I have a flexible schedule helps immensely, and that flexible schedule is possible because I can turn down work that doesn't give me that flexibility. If I had a strict clock-in/clock-out job, and only had limited time to run errands, I'd have a lot less pat…

Maybe it helps being rich, but just as a counter example, my grandfather was never rich. He was a clock-in/clock-out guy and still managed to spend a lot of time with me while I was growing up. He had a lot more patience than most of the "white collar" adults in my life ever did, and taught me lots of useful skills like how to fix a lot of electrical or mechanical things.

Sure it’s possible to do it when you’re not rich. It’s just a lot easier if you are. Like many things in life. :)

Re: Conversations with a six-year-old on functional programming

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing that makes this easier is being rich. What I mean by that is for example, when my kid is asking me questions or wants to "do it myself!", the fact that I have a flexible schedule helps immensely, and that flexible schedule is possible because I can turn down work that doesn't give me that flexibility. If I had a strict clock-in/clock-out job, and only had limited time to run errands, I'd have a lot less pat…

Maybe it helps being rich, but just as a counter example, my grandfather was never rich. He was a clock-in/clock-out guy and still managed to spend a lot of time with me while I was growing up. He had a lot more patience than most of the "white collar" adults in my life ever did, and taught me lots of useful skills like how to fix a lot of electrical or mechanical things.

White collar doesn't mean rich. It means never really clocking out because your time is valuable enough it is worth monetizing every minute of it.

Re: Conversations with a six-year-old on functional programming

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love HN for all these random connections, even if I have no skin in the game!

Me too. I feel like the world is not as big as it actually is!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small-world_experiment
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