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Buffett bashes Bitcoin as nonproductive, thriving on mystique

reuters.com

61–70 of 189 posts

Re: Buffett bashes Bitcoin as nonproductive, thriving on mystique

#61

Fred Wilson of Union Square Ventures presents a counterargument to Buffett: https://avc.com/2018/05/is-buying-crypto-assets-investing/

It feels like the author missed the fundamental bit of Buffet's investment/speculation split: that the goods you obtain in an investment are valuable in themselves, which cryptocurrencies are not, even if we consider them the foundation of a new world. Comparing Ethereum to Aws seems odd too.

Re: Buffett bashes Bitcoin as nonproductive, thriving on mystique

#62

Buffet's investing strategy is, and has always been, look for the intrinsic value in a company, buy them, and then hold on forever. As part of that intrinsic value is the management teams that are running the companies. A strong team is as valuable as any other asset. When Buffet does buy a company, he'll generally leave management in place and not interfere in the day to day running of the company. Bitcoin has no ma…

This is totally reasonable, and I get why Warren should stay away from 'investments' in BTC. It's extremely wise to stay away from investments you don't understand, especially when you're a target like Buffett.

But what I can't get behind is his active and vocal bearishness. If he has a well-reasoned argument to make, then he should make it. If not, lay off.

Re: Buffett bashes Bitcoin as nonproductive, thriving on mystique

#63
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I've learned a bit about blockchain, I feel cryptocurrency is distracting from the broader implications of the technology. It's going to be hard enough for non-technical users to see the underlying value of immutable, distributed data and applications, so that conflation is unfortunate.

As we've seen many times now immutability is not a strong property (indeed, none of the properties provided by blockchains are) of them, so not all that useful. E.g. Ethereum's various hard forks to un-do things. In a manner of speaking, "history is written by the victors" applies to blockchains in more way than one (miners, orgs, hardforks, ...)

Ethereum has had exactly one hard fork to undo something. All the rest were protocol upgrades.

Re: Buffett bashes Bitcoin as nonproductive, thriving on mystique

#64
post #53
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhat of a class-based statement, definitely not dead among the working/lower class. If anything it was the 'tap-to-pay' feature of debit/credit cards that is finally putting some death-knell pressure on cash. It's so much faster than paying with a pin card or cash...

> If anything it was the 'tap-to-pay' feature of debit/credit cards that is finally putting some death-knell pressure on cash. It's so much faster than paying with a pin card or cash... Is it just me or aren't debit/credit cards much faster than paying with cash, too? Making change and then dealing with all of the coins is way higher effort than swipe, maybe pin or sign, and move on. And the sign step is going away,…

A large portion of US workforce works for cash.

Re: Buffett bashes Bitcoin as nonproductive, thriving on mystique

#65

Fred Wilson of Union Square Ventures presents a counterargument to Buffett: https://avc.com/2018/05/is-buying-crypto-assets-investing/

USV has invested in CryptoKitties ( https://www.usv.com/blog/cryptokitties-1 ). This doesn't invalidate his position, but it's worth remembering he is not an objective observer in the situation; his company is positioned to directly gain from a crypto-mania.

"Don't tell me what you think, show me what's in your portfolio."

Re: Buffett bashes Bitcoin as nonproductive, thriving on mystique

#66
post #6

He's thinking of it in investing terms, underlying asset value, cash flows, etc. Because the media asks him "Should we buy bitcoin?" every damn day of the year. I'd be more interested to hear what he thinks makes for a good currency, inflation vs. deflation, freedom of transfer, protection against forfeiture, etc. Does he also think that the US Dollar is rat poison because it's not a productive asset? He holds like $…

>cash is dead lol

His argument is that debit cards aren't cash or something...

The laughter is justified not only for the illogic of this, but the fact that this is somehow a good reason to buy Bitcoin.

Re: Buffett bashes Bitcoin as nonproductive, thriving on mystique

#67
post #45

He has always said he doesnt understand technology and has resisted investing in it. While the value is fluctuating heavily due to speculation, over time it will stabilize. Bitcoin will resist inflation and is somewhat out of control of governments or any central authority. People in countries where the govt has screwed up the currency can use it to get money out of the country or as a stable store even if dollars or…

> Bitcoin will resist inflation and is somewhat out of control of governments or any central authority Can you back this up? From what I can tell, governments can ban mining, shut down exchanges and co-erce developers. If the handful of devs that have commit access to Bitcoin were working for the CIA, would we know? What kind of damage could they do? Eg. Could they introduce consensus bugs without anyone noticing? >…

> Can you back this up?

The money supply setup for Bitcoin is meant to make the currency deflationary by design. Whether that is successful or not remains to be determined.

Re: Buffett bashes Bitcoin as nonproductive, thriving on mystique

#68
'Billionaire investor Warren Buffett on Monday said buyers of bitcoin, which he has characterized as “rat poison squared,” thrive on the hope they’ll find other people who will pay more for it.'

isn't this in a nutshell stock market form 'normal person' perspective? Or antiques market, or any other from thousands 'buy cheap - sell for more' types of market?

Re: Buffett bashes Bitcoin as nonproductive, thriving on mystique

#69
post #59

Buffet's investing strategy is, and has always been, look for the intrinsic value in a company, buy them, and then hold on forever. As part of that intrinsic value is the management teams that are running the companies. A strong team is as valuable as any other asset. When Buffet does buy a company, he'll generally leave management in place and not interfere in the day to day running of the company. Bitcoin has no ma…

Bitcoin has tons of intrinsic value unique to crypto currencies that traditional currencies lack. Most importantly it can't be created/destroyed at will by a central government. Huge sums can be transferred globally at the speed of light with very low fees. Can't do that with gold or cash. With normal currency a wire transfer costs money and moving a lot of money from a bank account usually takes days. Also you can s…

If you ever studied economics, you'd know that scarcity is not intrinsically valluable. It might be a useful feature, but intrinsic value means having a minimum value. Gold can't be created, but it had real usefulness in manufacturing. Besides, you could make a new buttcoin tomorrow, but you can't make a new kind of Atom.

Stop proving that Bitcoin enthusiasts don't understand economics.

Re: Buffett bashes Bitcoin as nonproductive, thriving on mystique

#70

Fred Wilson of Union Square Ventures presents a counterargument to Buffett: https://avc.com/2018/05/is-buying-crypto-assets-investing/

USV has invested in CryptoKitties ( https://www.usv.com/blog/cryptokitties-1 ). This doesn't invalidate his position, but it's worth remembering he is not an objective observer in the situation; his company is positioned to directly gain from a crypto-mania.

Agreed but I think the opposite is much too prevalent. People with absolutely no experience using crypto currencies write articles bashing them without ever using them first hand. Im not advocating for them but I think to actually assess their use/value they must be tried.
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