The bigger concern I have is that it encourages extreme nepotism — people vouch for people from their schools and prior jobs, and so risks introducing systemic bias against people from different backgrounds. Obviously gender and race are heavily represented in this kind of thing, but even basic stuff like west coast vs east university nonsense can start happening.
Tesla reviewing contractors, firing everyone not vouched for by an employee
31–40 of 106 posts
Re: Tesla reviewing contractors, firing everyone not vouched for by an employee
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I'd argue that something is seriously wrong if you can't get at least one employee to vouch for you. The corollary to that is that if you get to the point where you need to check on the vouchsafety of all your contractors - en masse - something is seriously wrong with your company.
Something is seriously wrong with most large companies, and most of them simply ignore that. Good to see Tesla being different in that regard.
I dunno, GM and Ford build a fuck-ton more cars and have better build quality (which is shitty by int'l standards). Seems like Teslas's problem is bigger.
Re: Tesla reviewing contractors, firing everyone not vouched for by an employee
#33Tesla seems like a company where people would place a premium on being a direct employee, vs. another organization. I'd certainly feel more 'pride' in saying "I work for Tesla" than "I work for X" for almost all non-SpaceX or tiny-startup values of X, and that's probably generally held by people who would contract for Tesla.
I'd certainly feel more 'pride' in saying "I work for Tesla" Why? SpaceX, sure. But Tesla? Just because it gets more news coverage?
Tesla is doing more innovation than the median tech company, and probably more than the 95th percentile. Plus, it's a consumer-understandable product, so you could "explain what you do at a dinner party" to someone outside of the domain.
"Engineer at Tesla" beats "engineer at IBM" but probably is socially inferior to "radiation oncologist".
Obviously status is to some extent subjective and culturally/individually determined, but there's broad agreement that certain jobs are higher status than others by various groups of people.
Re: Tesla reviewing contractors, firing everyone not vouched for by an employee
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
Something is seriously wrong with most large companies, and most of them simply ignore that. Good to see Tesla being different in that regard.
I dunno, GM and Ford build a fuck-ton more cars and have better build quality (which is shitty by int'l standards). Seems like Teslas's problem is bigger.
They have been building basically the same cars for far longer so that does not say much.
Tesla is attacking too many different problems at the same time IMO. Just building batteries at scale and low cost is on it's own a huge undertaking. Now add cars, self driving systems, charging network, home battery and solar etc.
It's over valued as a pure car company, but the other lines could also be huge companies on their own.
Re: Tesla reviewing contractors, firing everyone not vouched for by an employee
#35Is it possible this just Tesla "encouraging" contractors to switch to employees? Contractors generally get paid significantly more than employees in the short term, and Tesla is on the line for getting to profitability.
Employees have a lot of expenses that contractors don't have. Payroll taxes, health insurance, other benefits, and generally there are more HR policies governing termination for an employee than a contractor, even in an at-will employment situation.
Re: Tesla reviewing contractors, firing everyone not vouched for by an employee
#36Don't contractors have managers that are supposed to, well, manage them?
Not that sort of singleton contractor - and technically having a company employee manage your day to day tasks will be take by the tax man as disguised employment - not a good idea.
Yes, there will generally be a person designated to tell you what they want done, but they can't manage where and how you do it.
Re: Tesla reviewing contractors, firing everyone not vouched for by an employee
#37Being a hard ass CEO isn't sexy, but it's what so many successful CEO's are. > Often, it is like a Russian nesting doll of contractor, subcontractor, sub-subcontractor, etc. before you finally find someone doing actual work. I'd also argue that these multi-level contractor setups are a major security concern. Ideally they should make it policy to have no more than one additional level between Tesla and the contractor…
It really makes me wonder: Isn't using contractors super inefficient? Why do companies, when they could do it in house, use them?
It's not inefficient if your metric is quickly getting workers in the door as contracting firms are built for this purpose. But you could argue that it will result in a poorer selection of high-quality candidates. I'd say this is because when hiring non-technical workers they're incentivised for numbers.
This is in contrast to employment consultants getting fees in intervals over a period of a person's time with an employer, usually done for executive positions. So I'd say optimise your agreements with contracting firms for quality rather than quantity by paying them bonuses in intervals, with a low initial payment for the finding the candidate.
Re: Tesla reviewing contractors, firing everyone not vouched for by an employee
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I'd argue that something is seriously wrong if you can't get at least one employee to vouch for you. The corollary to that is that if you get to the point where you need to check on the vouchsafety of all your contractors - en masse - something is seriously wrong with your company.
I think Elon was pretty clear that he considers the situation to be seriously wrong, hence the extreme approach. It's a refreshing attitude; this sort of problem is common in most large companies.
I agree. Tesla is only worried about one thing right now: they are about to run out of money. If Elon has identified that contractors aren't providing the necessary ROI or at least traceability to the ROI, he's making a smart choice to let them go. Tesla is, in the view of some, on the brink of failure, where failure is defined as insolvency.
Re: Tesla reviewing contractors, firing everyone not vouched for by an employee
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm a regular employee, and I don't see it being any different. Figuratively speaking, my boss has to sign my paycheck every two weeks. If they don't like me, they can fire me.
see, I think there is a big cultural difference. Like, I always had that attitude as an employee, but I think that as an employee, it holds me back. I think the key is that as an employee, you are expected to act in the interest of the company in ways that are different from what you are expected to do as a contractor. My perception and experience is that as a contractor, I'm supposed to do what you tell me to do. If…
> My perception is that as an employee you are expected more to act in the best interest of the company.
As an employee, if you object to something your boss is really on board with, you can expect to be fired.
It is, in general, a career limiting move to tell anyone above you that what they're asking you to do is stupid. Maybe if you're a God-tier management consultant, you can propose changes and expect to have them implemented. As a regular employee or contractor schlub, no. If you want to keep your job, adopt their perspective.
(Illegal actions are another issue. While it's illegal in many jurisdictions to fire a whistleblower, in practice you're still risking your job to blow the whistle. Not that you shouldn't do it.)
Re: Tesla reviewing contractors, firing everyone not vouched for by an employee
#40The bigger concern I have is that it encourages extreme nepotism — people vouch for people from their schools and prior jobs, and so risks introducing systemic bias against people from different backgrounds. Obviously gender and race are heavily represented in this kind of thing, but even basic stuff like west coast vs east university nonsense can start happening.
Your own reputation is put on the line by vouching for a contractor, according to the article. So if something bad happens down the line, your continued engagement with Tesla will be questioned too.
Nepotism and bribes are going to happen, but I think there will be some fast lessons when Tesla axes employees for this behavior.