Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley • Hacker News Board

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#661

Post by ng12 » Sat, May 05, 2018, 7:36 PM UTC

simonbarker87 wrote: post #653

ng12 wrote: post #633

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that's the point. If you're wealthy, highly employable, and culturally compatible it's easy. Everyone else gets a big fat "no". Trump's gotten flack for suggesting the USA do the same.

> If you're wealthy, highly employable, and culturally compatible it's easy. Everyone else gets a big fat "no". From what I can US the US still says no even if you meet the above criteria.

In the US work-related visas have no cultural or language requirements. In addition, the USA has an immigration lottery which has no education, wealth, or employability requirements, especially for people coming from under-represented countries.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#662

Post by stale2002 » Sat, May 05, 2018, 7:57 PM UTC

taysic wrote: post #388

trhway wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sunnyvale (current ground zero of Apple) median is close to 2M - that is only 5x of $400K which a lot of FANG and other engineers pull yearly (and that is the main reason for current SV home prices as, during such low mortgage rates, the market is naturally self-adjusting to 5-6x of prevalent salaries. In 2008 those houses were $700-800K+ - the 5-6x of those $120K-150K salaries back then).

Is 400k really for a lot of engineers? How many years of experience?

Ehhh, IF you are at Google/Facebook/Uber, AND you are an L5 senior engineer (6+ years of experience probably), then you might be making close to this.

It is certainly DOABLE, and within reach to get a job at google and stay there for 3 years. But thats the population we are talking about here.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#663

Post by estebank » Sat, May 05, 2018, 8:21 PM UTC

CydeWeys wrote: post #644

estebank wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Younger people do have fewer needs to treat chronic illnesses. That doesn't mean that healthcare can never be a significant financial burden regardless. - I've met people that have had terminal cancer in their very early 30s (didn't leave a giant bill to their state as this happened in the UK) - I've had a friend that needed an ambulance for his pregnant wife from an airport (>10K USD in out of pocket expenses) - I'v…

I think it's pretty clear from context that I was talking about average medical expenses by age, for which older people do pay much, much more. Also, $10K is a low figure for medical expenses compared to how much one can spend. End of life care for the elderly can easily run into the hundreds of thousands of dollars per year. My grandfather has been in and out of the hospital a lot this year with a broken hip, compli…

I believe that the disagreement we're having is born of what I'm possibly failing to do, which is getting the point across that talking about averages when the distribution is not anywhere close to normal is not useful and can be disastrous. If the average cost is maybe a few hundred dollars a month, but you have a low probability of having to pay several thousand dollars in an unlikely event, different people with different thresholds for risk will make different decisions. I'm just trying to make explicit to foreigners some things that are implicit to Americans so that they can make decide for themselves if it is worth it. I've clearly decided it was worth it, given I'm in the US now, but there's plenty I learned only once I was here that I would have appreciated knowing beforehands.

As an aside, the 10K figure was just he ambulance ride. I'm supplying that as a lower bound for the cost on an accident, which people in other countries would not believe.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#664

Post by okatsu » Sat, May 05, 2018, 8:46 PM UTC

toto123456 wrote: post #654

okatsu wrote: post #616

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in QC as well and was lucky enough to land a 65k job right out of school, so it was awkward to see my classmates not only accepting 45-50k salaries but also trying to rationalize them. I think you might be right about the taboo. But otherwise I love Montreal. My salary today is definitely peanuts compared to SV but I live comfortably here and I saved way more than 12k during school thanks to internships and the l…

I'm in Qc too, in Québec city. May I ask what language do you guys use ? Thanks.

My job right out of school was mostly C++. Nowadays it's a mix of C++ and web stuff.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#665

Post by [deleted] » Sat, May 05, 2018, 9:07 PM UTC

jonathanyc wrote: post #591

okfine wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't any say of those things! From my perspective, you've put my words through a really intense filter and then gotten angry at your filter. For example, I didn't suggest that the government should do such a thing. It's a hideous idea, besides being an obvious legal and political impossibility. What I said was that if they did, it might affect the software salary market in Canada, in contrast to other things peop…

I get what you’re saying about feeling that other people are putting your words through a filter, but if you are concerned about that you seriously need to look at how you are reading other people’s comments. You wrote a whole comment based on making fun of my use of the word “good” as “magical,” which is the least charitable interpretation of an admittedly ambiguous word and not at all what I meant. It’s also clear…

[deleted]

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#666

Post by antoniuschan99 » Sat, May 05, 2018, 9:37 PM UTC

neuromantik8086 wrote: post #630

api wrote: post #625

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have lived on both coasts and the biggest difference I have noticed is the strength of the elite university caste system in the East. It felt like if you didn't go to a top ten school you had a glass ceiling. It exists out West too but in my experience so far is less prevalent and is given less weight. People out East often start a presentation, pitch, or interview with where they went to school. Out West I have do…

I've never lived outside of the East Coast / mid-West, but what you're saying sounds feasible. That said, I'd guess that the "who are you? What is your background?" question is more of a Boston thing than a New York thing, since New York doesn't have the Puritan / Boston Brahman caste system. I've known of a number of people who went to state schools or random unknown schools in New Jersey who've done reasonably well…

I also wonder if the weather has anything to do with the mentality.

Winters in the East Coast are harsh so it forces people to be more 'realistic'. Whereas the sub tropical West Coast gives people an environment to think in more imaginitive ways.

Also Juicero was headquarted in San Fran?

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#667

Post by antoniuschan99 » Sat, May 05, 2018, 9:40 PM UTC

WiseWeasel wrote: post #652

coldtea wrote: post #647

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can't compare long-distance public transportation infrastructure in places with the population densities and growth rates of Germany and California You very much can. Parent didn't ask Californians to build infrastructure in Yosemite or the Death Valley. Heck, not even in Bakersfield. How's that L.A, San Diego, and San Francisco public transportation infrastructure? Places that, if anything, have more populatio…

The US mostly relies on air travel, and it's not too inconvenient if you can avoid major hubs like SFO and LAX. The population of those metropolitan areas isn't the problem; it's the distance, as well as the lower demand for travel between them. California is also more seismically active. You can build a passenger HSR system in California, but the cost/benefit is going to be worse than somewhere like Germany.

Wendover Productions made an interesting video on the economics of Trains in the States:

https://youtu.be/fwjwePe-HmA

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#668

Post by digianarchist » Sat, May 05, 2018, 9:49 PM UTC

yarosv wrote: post #307

digianarchist wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're insulated because provinces cannot pass laws on gay marriage or legal cannabis. Canadian federalism is incomplete in that regard. However Ford could pull a Mike Harris and start firing nurses. His economic plan promises a balanced budget with no job cuts and no tax rises. He claims there are efficiencies to be had whatever that means.

Canada has gay marriages since 2005. Why would provinces need to pass more laws on that? As of legal cannabis, it is better when it is federal. In US you will go to jail in one state, and can be just fine in another.

Passing laws on those issues isn’t even possible in Canadian provinces they don’t have the constitutional right.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#669

Post by digianarchist » Sat, May 05, 2018, 9:51 PM UTC

setsanto wrote: post #604

digianarchist wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What matters to me is how much I can bank at the end of the month. With that in mind I've been looking hard at Austin but I'd need a H1-B. I'm not willing to lose a quarter of my household income because my wife cannot work.

Same problem here. I have offers in the Bay Area but my girlfriend would not be TN visa eligible due to her line of work. Rock and a hard place...

We just keep applying for the DV lottery. It’s a long shot but my wife qualifies.

I might move on a TN visa with the understanding that my employer converts to H1-B after 12 months.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#670

Post by kingofhdds » Sat, May 05, 2018, 10:03 PM UTC

sidrajaram wrote: post #600

kingofhdds wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure there are some important details missed in your story, because you either don't know them, or don't understand why they are important. My European, but non-EU, friend is a software engineer with certified knowledge of both En, and Fr, clean records, and all that stuff, decided to go to Canada for some not particularly economically rational reasons (like love of northern nature). This year it's going t…

Funnily enough, your post is also missing some important details. The Canadian system is very transparent with its scoring. Unless you're from a natively English/French speaking country, you need test scores to validate your proficiency in English/French. Certified doesn't mean much. Also, you need degrees from accredited/verifiable institutions to really rack up points - if your friend is self-taught, it may be no g…

I'm not sure if he's self-taught (most likely not), but as for languages he did exactly exams required by Canadian immigration service. In any case, my point is that it is observably easier for a CS professional to move to California than to Canada. I don't blame anyone/anything, because frankly I have no first-hand knowledge. Probably, the system is transparent but inefficient.