The United States of Japan • Hacker News Board

Re: The United States of Japan

#51

Post by jacquesm » Sat, May 05, 2018, 7:06 PM UTC

jogjayr wrote: post #39

almostApatriot1 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, Japanese culture has filled a gap. If there were more components to Western Culture outside of America's influence maybe it wouldn't be so prominent. But what, culturally, is coming out of Canada, Europe, Australia, South America, or Asia (outside of Japan)? Not much that is universally appealing.

Canada's done all right in terms of music exports. I don't even know Western popular music all that well and I can name Bryan Adams, Shania Twain, Celine Dion, Justin Bieber, and Drake - I'm sure there's many more. Hollywood and American TV has a ton of Canadian actors, which reminds me of the Canadian brain drain article from yesterday - maybe that's not restricted to tech :-) "Asia (outside of Japan)" I can only sp…

Canada: Rush, Alanis Morissette, Nickelback, Saga and 100's of others. Celine Dion and Justin Bieber are Canadian but having lived in Canada I'd be more than happy if I never heard them again. And with Bieber I had that feeling from the first time I heard him, I guess it is to balance the score after Glenn Gould.

Re: The United States of Japan

#52

Post by satokema » Sat, May 05, 2018, 7:07 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #30

LMYahooTFY wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I understand the dichotomy you propose at the end; that if Nintendo didn't market to children, no other large publisher would?

Parent doesn't speak specifically of Nintendo (even if they mention several of their titles). The point being made is: if those Japanese games were absent from the market, we'd be left with the more bleak and violent US-made games.

Would we? It seems to me there was appeal to those games - not just random luck that they won out.

Seems like a market hole would exist if we were stuck with "more bleak and violent US-made games", and I doubt your caricature of Americans would allow a market hole like that to exist. :)

Re: The United States of Japan

#53

Post by jacquesm » Sat, May 05, 2018, 7:13 PM UTC

almostApatriot1 wrote: post #25

temp-dude-87844 wrote: post #14

The author's basic premise stands: Japan has undergone a post-industrial transition where the sudden prosperity of post-WWII generations was quickly followed by stagnation of those coming of age later; the shrunken opportunities afforded to the younger cohort leads them towards idle leisure, or anxiety-filled corporate drone work. The nature of consumerism has changed: there's still outward signalling but the goals h…

Yes, Japanese culture has filled a gap. If there were more components to Western Culture outside of America's influence maybe it wouldn't be so prominent. But what, culturally, is coming out of Canada, Europe, Australia, South America, or Asia (outside of Japan)? Not much that is universally appealing.

Europe: lots of music (just the Uk, just some pop: Beatles, Bowie), food, fashion, flowers, movies, books.

Canada: music, quite a few good writers for the size of the population, a generally nicer way of life than what I experienced in America.

Australia: I've never been there, so not much to comment on.

South America: food, dance, music, books.

Asia: food, books, dance, and again music.

Oh, and you left out Africa completely, again, Food, Dance, Music, I don't know any writers from there by name.

Funny how those four seem to be pretty common. At a guess, mr or mrs almostApatriot1 you haven't really been to any of those places, and if you have you probably didn't immerse.

If 'universal appeal' starts with 'has to be English and has to feel Western' then maybe only the UK and Australia would suit you. In that case try some Crowded House and have a slice of Cheddar on your sandwich.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowded_House

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheddar_cheese

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandwich

Re: The United States of Japan

#54

Post by baxtr » Sat, May 05, 2018, 7:20 PM UTC

jonathanyc wrote: post #2

A lot more profound than I expected from the title. I recommend reading it if you’ve skipped to the comments :) I was particularly impressed by the comparison the author drew between aspects of Japanese youth culture that developed during the Lost Decade and aspects of “millennial” culture today in the US. I would be interested to see if anyone has developed that further.

I have traveled the world quite a bit, and lately, my impression is: people and cultures are becoming and more similar, probably due to things like social networks that work as amplifier for (mainly western) culture.

What I observe:

- people dressing/styling similar

- same food

- same large retail chains

- music sounds similar (except for the language)

- same TV shows

- everybody looking at their smartphones all the time

Re: The United States of Japan

#55

Post by Barrin92 » Sat, May 05, 2018, 7:23 PM UTC

torstenvl wrote: post #8

I have trouble getting any value from this article, which seems relatively devoid of pertinent facts. The author wants to claim "Japanization" of America after the Great Recession because of a reduced fertility rate and an emphasis on the experience economy. But, although he notes that fertility declines are a mark of industrialized nations, he fails to adequately compare the U.S. phenomenon to other countries, to co…

I think that's a little bit harsh because the general points about post industrial societies, especially the changing role of consumption is pretty insightful and important to talk about, but I agree that there was no specific need to tie it to Japan.

What's a little bit funny is that the author literally mentions the Gibsonesque Japan hype of the 80s, with everybody thinking that we'd all be living in Neo-Tokyo in 30 years.

Obviously, as the author notes, it didn't really pan out that way. Some cultural exports of Japan are without much doubt very popular and there are commonalities in culture, but every region and country still has its own way to deal with future changes, and in many cases very different demograhpics. There's no need to reduce it to any generic *-ification.

Re: The United States of Japan

#56

Post by coldtea » Sat, May 05, 2018, 7:27 PM UTC

TheForumTroll wrote: post #48

coldtea wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only 10? Culturally it's a hinterland judging from its output.

Output of what?

I rest my case!

Though I do enjoy Nick Cave, Ed Kuepper, the Triffids, the Go-Betweens, and Tsiolkas -- not much of Australian-specific bunch most of them though.

Cave is mostly a dark take of US blues and celtic folk for example...

Re: The United States of Japan

#57

Post by majos » Sat, May 05, 2018, 7:28 PM UTC

> [W]e're all otaku now.

Are we? Perhaps this is true for the people that write New Yorker articles, and a big chunk of those who read them, but from what I can tell most average Americans use Facebook, play basic app games, watch popular movies, and occasionally read a best-selling book. I don't see or hear about much cultivation of deep, obsessive, specific cultural interests.

Re: The United States of Japan

#58

Post by coldtea » Sat, May 05, 2018, 7:30 PM UTC

satokema wrote: post #52

coldtea wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parent doesn't speak specifically of Nintendo (even if they mention several of their titles). The point being made is: if those Japanese games were absent from the market, we'd be left with the more bleak and violent US-made games.

Would we? It seems to me there was appeal to those games - not just random luck that they won out. Seems like a market hole would exist if we were stuck with "more bleak and violent US-made games", and I doubt your caricature of Americans would allow a market hole like that to exist. :)

>Would we? It seems to me there was appeal to those games - not just random luck that they won out

An appeal yes, but also a cultural fingerprint.

Else we'd see Japanese and Americans doing those kind of games in equal measure.

If the example was with music, few would argue that Brazil and co etc would make more and better samba and the like than the US, or that the US will make more and better jazz or hip hop.

So why not accept that video game genres and styles can also be more cultivated in this or that area as well?

Re: The United States of Japan

#59

Post by [deleted] » Sat, May 05, 2018, 7:32 PM UTC

majos wrote: post #57

> [W]e're all otaku now. Are we? Perhaps this is true for the people that write New Yorker articles, and a big chunk of those who read them, but from what I can tell most average Americans use Facebook, play basic app games, watch popular movies, and occasionally read a best-selling book. I don't see or hear about much cultivation of deep, obsessive, specific cultural interests.

[deleted]

Re: The United States of Japan

#60

Post by ShabbosGoy » Sat, May 05, 2018, 7:45 PM UTC

Barrin92 wrote: post #55

torstenvl wrote: post #8

I have trouble getting any value from this article, which seems relatively devoid of pertinent facts. The author wants to claim "Japanization" of America after the Great Recession because of a reduced fertility rate and an emphasis on the experience economy. But, although he notes that fertility declines are a mark of industrialized nations, he fails to adequately compare the U.S. phenomenon to other countries, to co…

I think that's a little bit harsh because the general points about post industrial societies, especially the changing role of consumption is pretty insightful and important to talk about, but I agree that there was no specific need to tie it to Japan. What's a little bit funny is that the author literally mentions the Gibsonesque Japan hype of the 80s, with everybody thinking that we'd all be living in Neo-Tokyo in 3…

> Obviously, as the author notes, it didn't really pan out that way. Some cultural exports of Japan are without much doubt very popular and there are commonalities in culture, but every region and country still has its own way to deal with future changes, and in many cases very different demograhpics. There's no need to reduce it to any generic *-ification.

Very true. I think it’s undeniable that certain subcultures arose due to influence from Japanese cultural exports. But it’s a bit of a stretch to call it “Japanification”.