The rise of the pointless job • Hacker News Board

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#431

Post by gaius » Sat, May 05, 2018, 4:51 PM UTC

AmericanChopper wrote: post #336

tlb wrote: post #19

The goon category is interesting in a future world where AI has replaced most jobs, because it can employ an unlimited number of people. (Goon jobs exist to counterbalance other goon jobs. Militaries are the canonical example.) Most jobs -- teachers, auto workers, plumbers, farmers -- have a natural ceiling on employment related to demand, but goon jobs don't because when one side hires more goons, the other side has…

The analogy to the army isn’t a very good one. It’s not a zero sum situation. A country can only devote so much of its GDP to the army, so the country with the biggest economy ends up with the biggest army. You don’t end up with 195 armies of equal size. The other thing that it misses is that the army is intentionally a vehicle for social mobility, and perhaps the most efficient one at that. The army is available to…

the country with the biggest economy ends up with the biggest army

But that isn’t true. Look at the size of the North Korean army.

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#432

Post by sullyj3 » Sat, May 05, 2018, 4:58 PM UTC

AmericanChopper wrote: post #336

tlb wrote: post #19

The goon category is interesting in a future world where AI has replaced most jobs, because it can employ an unlimited number of people. (Goon jobs exist to counterbalance other goon jobs. Militaries are the canonical example.) Most jobs -- teachers, auto workers, plumbers, farmers -- have a natural ceiling on employment related to demand, but goon jobs don't because when one side hires more goons, the other side has…

The analogy to the army isn’t a very good one. It’s not a zero sum situation. A country can only devote so much of its GDP to the army, so the country with the biggest economy ends up with the biggest army. You don’t end up with 195 armies of equal size. The other thing that it misses is that the army is intentionally a vehicle for social mobility, and perhaps the most efficient one at that. The army is available to…

What? Zero sum doesn't mean that a stalemate is guaranteed. It means that one player's win is the other player's loss.

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#433

Post by sorokod » Sat, May 05, 2018, 4:59 PM UTC

bojo wrote: post #331

lainga wrote: post #15

I have said this before, but I see some parallels between the modern world and Japan during the early Tokugawa era. Japan had pretty much reached a steady state by the time Tokugawa Iyeyasu came to power in 1600; most of the available land had been cultivated or settled, and, especially after the policies of Toyotomi Hideyoshi, society was locked in a rigid structure without much room for advancement or unrest. As a…

This reminds me of an entry level Business Japanese class I took many years ago from Peter Firkola at the University of Hokkaido, except as applied to modern day Japan. My memory is a little fuzzy about the specifics, but the following is the main gist of it. Basically the Japanese government funds a large number of "pointless" projects, such as freeways to nowhere, large sea-facing cement walls, or things like subsi…

"The bottom of the system is incredibly inefficient, but it helps make sure that a bare minimum quality of life is available for people willing to try to get any old job." Efficiency should be measured against the goal of the system.

If the goal is to prevent the society from tearing itself apart then perhaps this is fairly efficient. If the goal is to ma

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#434

Post by madeofpalk » Sat, May 05, 2018, 5:05 PM UTC

modbait wrote: post #95

expensivedrone wrote: post #80

I'm a programmer working at a big-tech company. I make ~$350k/year, even though my job could be done equally well by a college intern. I only do ~2 hours of productive work in an average day. My previous jobs were far more interesting and challenging, and I had apparently done extremely well in my interviews. Hence why I got an offer with an extremely good compensation package. However, the team that I go put into, i…

Through my long career, I've notice virtually no correlation between my pay and the utility of my position. And indeed, I've had one or two jobs like yours. Sadly for my bank book, I can only stand being useless for relatively short stretches. I still reminisce about my lowest paying job, my first. It was probably the most enjoyable and satisfying. It was also useful, though perhaps not at the top of that list. It's…

As I continue my (relatively young as a 20-something year old) web development career, I occasionally look back at my KFC job I had during uni and end of school with great fondness.

I honestly really enjoyed that job - it was fun working with great people doing a job of the right level of complexity and mental stimulation.

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#435

Post by Eric_WVGG » Sat, May 05, 2018, 5:09 PM UTC

Latteland wrote: post #335

twoquestions wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is it about freedom that is so terrifying for you?

Because freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose. There are tons of people who think like the poster above, that we need to control people by not letting them have enough earnings or whatever to be free and making choices for themselves. That belief is what is really scary to me.

It’s the same sort of logic that claims religion — specifically, the threat of hell— is necessary to prevent civilization from falling into savagery... ignoring the fact that most religions don’t have a concept of hell, and many predominately secular societies do just fine.

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#436

Post by afterburner » Sat, May 05, 2018, 5:40 PM UTC

modbait wrote: post #95

expensivedrone wrote: post #80

I'm a programmer working at a big-tech company. I make ~$350k/year, even though my job could be done equally well by a college intern. I only do ~2 hours of productive work in an average day. My previous jobs were far more interesting and challenging, and I had apparently done extremely well in my interviews. Hence why I got an offer with an extremely good compensation package. However, the team that I go put into, i…

Through my long career, I've notice virtually no correlation between my pay and the utility of my position. And indeed, I've had one or two jobs like yours. Sadly for my bank book, I can only stand being useless for relatively short stretches. I still reminisce about my lowest paying job, my first. It was probably the most enjoyable and satisfying. It was also useful, though perhaps not at the top of that list. It's…

I learned very early on that pay and employment largely depends on budgets.

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#437

Post by dyarosla » Sat, May 05, 2018, 5:57 PM UTC

tigroferoce wrote: post #415

dyarosla wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure the idea here is to quicken the checkout and lines-> having someone fill bags as someone else handles payments and you handle paying, makes queues move faster than having them grind to a halt due to someone packing their bags too slowly.

IN Italy there’s a little desk behind the cashiers and it’s split in half so while you fill your bags using one half the next client uses the other half. The amount of useless jobs in the states always amazes me, but then you look at the unemployment rate and everything becomes less useless ...

This too can get clogged. Been there and seen it take forever to go through lines in Italy.

I think you may not realize how many shoppers/how much person-density there can be in the US.

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#438

Post by therein » Sat, May 05, 2018, 6:21 PM UTC

rdl wrote: post #412

ctime wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never once seen this in my life (I typically have over 100k miles of airline travel per year) and have been traveling for work in the US since 2000. I don't understand how this scenario would play out, does he just grab a bag at random and hold it over his head? Read off the tag? Most people I know would be incensed if someone else were to grab their bag off the luggage belt. You might be confusing this with cur…

Baggage handlers at airports pull bags off the belts and put them in a line nearby (and sometimes give them to passengers) when there's a need to clear the belt, or when they don't have other work to do (at some airports). This is mainly to keep the belt from filling up. They also sometimes do this when looking for a bag for transfer (which failed to get interlined correctly or something, or when an elite has a conne…

I am sure these people attend other tasks once that's done. They likely also have other belt-related tasks to deal with behind the doors.

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#439

Post by learc83 » Sat, May 05, 2018, 6:30 PM UTC

randomdata wrote: post #398

ItsMe000001 wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt that top-paying jobs like CEO are undesirable to those people who have them as well as those who would like to have them. On the other hand all really shitty jobs pay nothing - that's true for hundreds of millions, maybe even billions of people worldwide. A >100k$ programmer office job in the US does not belong in the "shitty job" category, no matter how much someone complains online because they are bored wh…

It's just basic supply and demand. Top paying jobs like CEO are top paying because the supply of trusted people, who boards are willing to hand control over billions of assets to, is vanishingly small. Programming jobs are reasonably well paying because businesses are careful about who they hand their code over to, although not the extreme degree of CEO. And something like fry cook is low paying because those busines…

It's not just basic supply and demand though. There are many other factors driving up CEO pay.

1. CEO pay at public companies is public, so they feel the need to keep up with other companies.

2. The incestuous relationship between CEOs and the boards of directors that set their pay.

CEO compensation isn't tied to performance.

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#440

Post by 0x445442 » Sat, May 05, 2018, 6:42 PM UTC

bonniemuffin wrote: post #425

0x445442 wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is interesting and sad to me. Sad because it's at least one data point that refutes a theory I've had. I've been on a job search for some time now in the same field which you're employed. I've had a number of interviews but I think things have stalled a few times when it's come to salary negotiation. I've been approaching things with the theory that the more I'm compensated the less likely I'd be in the situatio…

If you're looking for meaningful, interesting work on a high-functioning team, IMO the only way to be sure is to only apply to companies where you already know someone working there. Find someone you know who genuinely likes their job, and have them refer you to a position at their company. Anything else is just reading tea leaves.

So my son and I undertook an interesting project of sorts a few months ago... We attempted to obtain bitcoin while remaining completely anonymous. The only way that I could see to successfully do this was to either purchase directly from someone using cash via Craigslist or the like, exchanging a good or service directly with someone for bitcoin or mining of course.

To me using cryptos as a derivative of existing fiat is the weak link in the chain as the anonymity all but goes away. And when that goes away the concerns you've stated reappear because decentralization is gone.