Both in rich and poor countries, universal health care brings huge benefits • Hacker News Board

Re: Both in rich and poor countries, universal health care brings huge benefits

#551

Post by Hozzle » Fri, May 04, 2018, 9:22 AM UTC

analog31 wrote: post #238

dv_dt wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care for them under the universal system, but bill the cost of the universal system directly.

My mom got injured while hiking in a country with universal care. She hobbled to the next town, found a clinic, and got treated. Then she wanted to pay. First, the person at the clinic said: "What do you mean, you don't pay for health care." My mom explained that she was from another country. It turned out they didn't even have the means to take her money. Treating a few foreigners for free might actually be cheaper…

Most UHC countries have reciprocal deals where a citizen of one has all the same rights as a citizen of the other when travelling. Its just a lot cheaper than having to ship people around or delay treatment or all the paperwork.

The US has no such deals because it does not have a UHC system to deal with. However, most UHC systems that do not charge aren't going to pay out for setting up a billing infrastructure for the occasional American. The ones with co-pays etc already have a billing structure in place, and may charge you. Or not, it would be pretty mortifying to have to charge someone for health care.

Re: Both in rich and poor countries, universal health care brings huge benefits

#552

Post by Hozzle » Fri, May 04, 2018, 9:25 AM UTC

dv_dt wrote: post #295

analog31 wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My mom got injured while hiking in a country with universal care. She hobbled to the next town, found a clinic, and got treated. Then she wanted to pay. First, the person at the clinic said: "What do you mean, you don't pay for health care." My mom explained that she was from another country. It turned out they didn't even have the means to take her money. Treating a few foreigners for free might actually be cheaper…

For small stuff almost certainly, but if you get medical "tourists" explicitly travelling for say cancer treatment?

If you are a legal resident, you are covered. If you are a visitor it depends on what deal your national UHC system has with the nation you are visitng. Normally there would be little reason to go to a foreign country for treatment.

Re: Both in rich and poor countries, universal health care brings huge benefits

#553

Post by moorhosj » Fri, May 04, 2018, 4:55 PM UTC

Consultant32452 wrote: post #525

moorhosj wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

== And it's a major part of the explanation why US doctors make 2x+ what their counterparts in countries like Germany make.== That is a nice thought, fortunately NPR has done the actual reporting on this. It seems like the answer is government interference [1]: "But the biggest reason German health costs are so much lower, experts say, is that doctors are paid less. This largely reflects Germany's concerted efforts t…

>"But the biggest reason German health costs are so much lower, experts say, is that doctors are paid less. This largely reflects Germany's concerted efforts to keep costs down over the past two decades." Yes, this supports my statement. I said the medical lobby has artificially constricted the supply of doctors. Limited supply means higher wages. I'm not familiar with the German system, they may have done other thin…

== I said the medical lobby has artificially constricted the supply of doctors.==

In the free market, money equals influence. As long as AMA determines who is/isn't a doctor, they have an incentive to make it as hard as possible to become a doctor.

==The rest has come from changes in the social determinants of health, particularly in early childhood.==

Now you have to prove that free and easily accessible access to health care won't have a positive impact on the social determinants of health. It stands to reason that part of America's reluctance to visit doctors is rooted in the historical costs associated with visiting doctors. If we can remove that stigma through cheaper and more accessible care, it stands to reason that we can improve the social determinants of health over the long term.

Here's an example: In Canada, one can visit a dietician as part of their health insurance, this could have a positive impact on obesity, which would lead to healthier population.

Re: Both in rich and poor countries, universal health care brings huge benefits

#554

Post by shin_lao » Sat, May 05, 2018, 1:56 PM UTC

ordinaryperson wrote: post #151

shin_lao wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a healthy wealthy individual, more than happy to pay for sick people that cannot afford healthcare to become healthy. It is in my direct interest to have as little sick people as possible in the country where I live.

Sure. But what if the costs keep skyrocketing? Say you pay 50% in taxes now -- you cool with 70%? 80%? Presumably there's a limit to what you're willing to pay. I am in favor of higher taxes but it's impractical to assume just paying for universal health care at all costs is a viable strategy.

In the US we pay more for less. Our system is nonsensical. Whether it's tax or premiums, doesn't matter, the overall cost is crazy, the system is unfair, and the final quality is low. Just look at life expectancy.

Re: Both in rich and poor countries, universal health care brings huge benefits

#555

Post by mistermann » Sat, May 05, 2018, 5:02 PM UTC

rogerb wrote: post #499

SamReidHughes wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a nice saccade you've made from "you are a terrible person" to "healthcare ... ends at the borders." Universal healthcare would be great if it was cheap and covered everything.

It might be a little hard for you to understand - but on the other side of the USA is... another country ! And they are free to do whatever they want, which in the case of developed countries is universal health care !

Ah, the confidence of a young liberal, it fills the heart with hope !

I'll offer some advice, although I doubt you think you have much more to learn in life. If you're walking around looking for donations or support towards a cause, perhaps mocking those who may not share the identical philosophical beliefs as you isn't the optimum approach.

Re: Both in rich and poor countries, universal health care brings huge benefits

#556

Post by Kequc » Mon, May 07, 2018, 11:26 PM UTC

AstralStorm wrote: post #336

Kequc wrote: post #284

I've lived in countries that have socialized medicine and ones without and my experience was dramatically different. I was always taught that socialized medicine was better. However I never got half decent care until I bought private health insurance. My whole life I've been on government healthcare plans, across various countries. Imagine my shock when the first time I called my private health insurance provider at…

You will quickly find the limits of private healthcare once a surgery or advanced treatment is necessary. Usually that it is not covered in your plan. Heck, even relatively simple specialist interventions will go beyond coverage. In many countries they are great at routine care, no doubt, as they're just not overcrowded and that is the main reason for problems in public systems. If you shift all the crowd there... we…

Not true. For the small amount I am paying I am covered for one major surgery in a hospital per year. Hopefully I never have to use it. If I need two major surgeries in one year well then I'll pay for it. Sounds like I've got bigger issues.

More than one surgery per year I'm covered for surgery in the medical vehicle. So if I'm going beyond that, I think I'll take the extra 9220 that I'm saving every year and risk it! Call me crazy I think most of that money is going toward treating fat people and drug users.