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The rise of the pointless job

theguardian.com

331–340 of 499 posts

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#331
post #15

I have said this before, but I see some parallels between the modern world and Japan during the early Tokugawa era. Japan had pretty much reached a steady state by the time Tokugawa Iyeyasu came to power in 1600; most of the available land had been cultivated or settled, and, especially after the policies of Toyotomi Hideyoshi, society was locked in a rigid structure without much room for advancement or unrest. As a…

This reminds me of an entry level Business Japanese class I took many years ago from Peter Firkola at the University of Hokkaido, except as applied to modern day Japan. My memory is a little fuzzy about the specifics, but the following is the main gist of it.

Basically the Japanese government funds a large number of "pointless" projects, such as freeways to nowhere, large sea-facing cement walls, or things like subsidizing construction companies and the like (this is why you'll see 6 people standing around a hole in the ground, 3 "bosses" doing absolutely nothing, 2 of them old men flagging traffic, 1 person doing the actual digging). This is how Japan manages to keep their unemployment rate low, and thus keep money moving through the economy - by making sure people are able to obtain a job, even if it's useless or redundant.

At the top of it all you have the massive Zaibatsu (big conglomerates) which fund the lower level companies under their umbrella which in turn pay these meager salaries and keep people employed, typically as some kind of tax write off and the side benefits of having all of these various companies at their disposal (concrete, construction, real estate, etc).

The bottom of the system is incredibly inefficient, but it helps make sure that a bare minimum quality of life is available for people willing to try to get any old job.

Interesting article which sums up big infrastructure projects and their long term drawbacks/benefits better than I can (2009) - https://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/06/world/asia/06japan.html

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#332
post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It matters to me and many many others who enjoy the marvel movies. You're essentially saying entertainment is meaningless. Which isn't right at all.

I'm not saying entertainment is meaningless, I'm merely objecting to the claim that "it has to get done." No, it doesn't. It's not mandatory, it's a luxury.

That's far more agreeable than saying it doesn't matter at all. Also very different.

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it sucks capital from places that do We have more than enough "capital". There is no shortage of (completely made up virtual) "money". There always is plenty of money for any worthwhile project - because it is created new for that new project. And if the economy is in trouble because "money!" the government steps in and through intermediaries creates a few trillion, see last crisis. So, please clarify for me, how d…

I guess you’ve never heard of inflation. When the government prints more money it steals value from the money in my pocket. See Venezuela printing money for people to fill holes other people are digging instead of letting a free market allocate reaources.

I guess you don't know how money works in the modern economy. The majority of money is not created by commercial banks out of thin air, but not unreasonably (at least the actual concept is not unreasonable) - they can only do so when they have a "partner" (customer) willing to sign a debt agreement that they will pay back that amount, plus interest. So banks can't just create what they want.

The government GIVES you the money in the first place, you would be nothing living in a mud hut in the swamp without the "evil government". It's not "your" money to begin with. If you want to know what is "yours" go to the middle of the forest and live there, all the stone tools and grass huts you manage to build are all yours, no "stealing" from government. Everything you have you owe to luck of birth, that you were not born nearer the beginning of humanity but today. You live off of network effects of connected humanity in time and space. Don't give me that BS of "your money". Everything you are is 99.999999999999999999% NOT made by you.

By the way, we have had a HUGE increase in money over real economy for decades - and only very low inflation. Your ignorance is a bit too extreme for my taste.

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UBI will lead to societal degeneration. Prices of essential services and goods would skyrocket; people would lose direction and the small amount of meaning they had. I call UBI gay-space-communism because it suggests that all human beings are capable of handling themselves outside of employment and daily routine. They are not. The market creates this drive in people, and if you remove it, people will degenerate fast.…

What is it about freedom that is so terrifying for you?

Because freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose.

There are tons of people who think like the poster above, that we need to control people by not letting them have enough earnings or whatever to be free and making choices for themselves. That belief is what is really scary to me.

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#336
post #19

The goon category is interesting in a future world where AI has replaced most jobs, because it can employ an unlimited number of people. (Goon jobs exist to counterbalance other goon jobs. Militaries are the canonical example.) Most jobs -- teachers, auto workers, plumbers, farmers -- have a natural ceiling on employment related to demand, but goon jobs don't because when one side hires more goons, the other side has…

The analogy to the army isn’t a very good one. It’s not a zero sum situation. A country can only devote so much of its GDP to the army, so the country with the biggest economy ends up with the biggest army. You don’t end up with 195 armies of equal size. The other thing that it misses is that the army is intentionally a vehicle for social mobility, and perhaps the most efficient one at that. The army is available to most people, where they can make a good career for themselves, or learn skills to take to the private sector, or move onto highly subsidized college. Dismissing it as bullshit is pretty narrow minded.

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#337
post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those signs say stop on the other side and are used in conjuction with someone on the other end of the construction holding up the opposite sign so that a single lane can be used to handle traffic in two directions. That job would need to be automated with a traffic light.

A smart traffic light that can count how any cars enter and exit the zone. It's perfectly possible to automate, but it may not be the best ROI around.

They are common in Sweden for slower roads and streets. I’m quite certain they don’t count the cars, instead just leaving enough time even for slow cars to pass through.

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#338
post #256
post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is visited the USA just once (in 2003), but there was an old man that took my bag off the end of the luggage belt at the airport and handed it to me. I could easily have picked it up myself, but he was there for those 30 centimeters of bag travel. I remember being amazed about it and remarking the pointlessness of that job to my coworkers.

In the US you often see people holding a sign saying "slow" next to construction or road work. This is a job that could literally be automated with a pole :)

They are almost exclusively female Irish backpackers here in Australia from what I hear. Usually the only females on a crew.

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When I was in the US there was a guy handing me a towel in the bathroom. That is an incredibly meaningless and superfluous job! On the other hand, most Americans live their entire lives in the US without ever seeing such a guy. Are you mind-bogglingly rich?

You too may experience this "luxury" by going to pretty much any club (dance or strip) on pretty much any weekend in pretty much any major US city. The opulence wears off quickly, as it is made clear that you're expected to tip and all you want to do is wash your hands like a decent person.

If the attendant is to my left, I rotate clockwise towards the door after I finish washing. Then it looks like I didn’t see him.

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#340
Universities are filled with this kind of pointlessness. The result is a massive amount of friction between those on the "edge" of the university doing useful work in research, teaching, building things, and the people in the "core" who routinely fire and re-hire whole departments and replace perfectly functional buildings in order to justify their paycheck.

It's not that the beaucracy running a University isn't needed (it definitely is), but it has got out of control and is consuming valuable resources better used elsewhere.

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