The unraveling of all prohibition carries primal joy
Why Men Love War (1984)
61–70 of 188 posts
Re: Why Men Love War (1984)
#62This is a compelling long read. If the subject is of interest, the movie Restrepo and this talk from Sebastian Junger [1] may be of interest, too. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wn0zEBhvwXY
The book, "War," from Sebastian Junger is well worth a read. I read it before seeing "Restrepo" (which I also recommend). On Goodreads, I wrote this about Junger's book and his take on men and war after finishing it: "[T]he experience of warfare seems to strike a chord deep within the psyche of the men in combat. The bonding among men, the heroism, the swinging extremes of victory won only by the palpable threat of m…
The book Tribe was also good.
Re: Why Men Love War (1984)
#63This is a compelling long read. If the subject is of interest, the movie Restrepo and this talk from Sebastian Junger [1] may be of interest, too. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wn0zEBhvwXY
The book, "War," from Sebastian Junger is well worth a read. I read it before seeing "Restrepo" (which I also recommend). On Goodreads, I wrote this about Junger's book and his take on men and war after finishing it: "[T]he experience of warfare seems to strike a chord deep within the psyche of the men in combat. The bonding among men, the heroism, the swinging extremes of victory won only by the palpable threat of m…
Many of the awkwardly out of place, positive emotional responses of men to war -- the intense engagement, the euphoria, the sense of bonding and belonging -- make a lot of sense when we consider what would happen to those men if they were absent. The same goes for the immorality of it -- indifference to suffering and lack of interest in context or justification.
Re: Why Men Love War (1984)
#64This is the single thing that freaked me out the most about our military and made me realize it wasn't the place for me when I joined at 17. Being a high school kid and meeting people who will look you straight in the eye and laugh as they talk about murdering someone, or watching their comrade's head explode. And not hypothetically, but in real, gruesome detail. I guess there's a need for that kind of person to exis…
> when I joined at 17
Are you sure they weren't just trying to fuck with the naive newbie?
Re: Why Men Love War (1984)
#65Theodore Roosevelt, an admitted war enthusiast, once said: "A just war is in the long run far better for a man's soul than the most prosperous peace."
Do you have any insight or references I could read that would help me understand why someone would feel this way?
Re: Why Men Love War (1984)
#66It's interesting to read this first hand account after having read some more science focused stuff.
>The power of war, like the power of love, springs from man's heart.
Both actually almost certainly arise from evolution. Love helps reproduce the species, wiping out the adjacent tribe and grabbing their resources helps also and if you are too nice they may wipe you instead. See 'Demonic Males' and the like for how chimps and early man did much the same kind of thing with of the order of a third of males dying in war like activities https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demonic_Males
Now we're getting quite good at not having wars (see Pinkers stuff or https://medium.com/future-crunch/the-decline-of-war-8760f9a5...) through things like the UN, EU democracy and so on but the warlike instincts remain and come out in football, political battles, video games and the movies. Also I've found things like high altitude mountaineering have some war like aspects - bunch of mostly blokes fighting the mountain with some risk of death - and are quite fun.
Re: Why Men Love War (1984)
#67This is the single thing that freaked me out the most about our military and made me realize it wasn't the place for me when I joined at 17. Being a high school kid and meeting people who will look you straight in the eye and laugh as they talk about murdering someone, or watching their comrade's head explode. And not hypothetically, but in real, gruesome detail. I guess there's a need for that kind of person to exis…
That feels like a fairly unique experience. I was in the military and I don't recall ever meeting anyone with that sort of attitude towards killing or death. On the contrary, most everyone I knew was rather opposed to fighting and saw what we were signed up for as a necessity that we did out of duty to our country, not because we liked it.
On the contrary, most everyone I knew was rather opposed to fighting and saw what we were signed up for as a necessity that we did out of duty to our country, not because we liked it.
I met this fellow musician at a jam session in St. Paul. Somehow the conversation got around to the military, and he proudly said he was the 3rd generation of men in his family who had signed up for the Marines. He bragged that it was the way the men in his family got to kill people. As in, they enjoyed it, and that was the legal and moral way to do it. It's not like the family was poor and had to do it, either. He was a...fellow who could cause consternation. However, he was quite likable in a way as well.
I'm glad that such people exist and manage to lead law abiding, productive lives.
Re: Why Men Love War (1984)
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
Since this was written in the 80s and it’s Esquire, it’s highly possible that the author is a military-industrial complex shill. Or an apologist at best. The only people who love war are corrupted individuals. They have no morals.
> The only people who love war are corrupted individuals. They have no morals. Says a person who has never truly faced a grave moral test in his life. I have known many veterans of horrific combat from Okinawa through Afghanistan. They all will tell you they loved it in some bizarre, insane fashion. Yet these same people are the most trustworthy, truly moral people I have ever known. They have touched the abyss, and…
Saying that you love war is like love massive earthquake in habitated area. That is what people react to - they are aware of massive destruction, hunger (both soldiers and civilians), freezing babies, break of laws, abuse, thousands of families without resources, displaced, soldiers being invalides till rest of their lives. Veterans being unable to live in peace again. War means rise of authoritarian regimes and terrorist groups too.
War is not just action and adrenalin. It is also rape and toddlers dying of hunger. It is ethnic massacres.
Re: Why Men Love War (1984)
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
Since this was written in the 80s and it’s Esquire, it’s highly possible that the author is a military-industrial complex shill. Or an apologist at best. The only people who love war are corrupted individuals. They have no morals.
> The only people who love war are corrupted individuals. They have no morals. Says a person who has never truly faced a grave moral test in his life. I have known many veterans of horrific combat from Okinawa through Afghanistan. They all will tell you they loved it in some bizarre, insane fashion. Yet these same people are the most trustworthy, truly moral people I have ever known. They have touched the abyss, and…
There’s a difference between being willing to die for certain ideals (i.e. like the Gauls during Julius Caesar’s campaigns) and loving wanton bloodshed. That’s the point I was trying to make. If you can’t understand the difference between fighting a defensive war and an aggressive war, you need a reality check. Also, I’m not sure why both my replies were flagged - I believe I was acting extremely civil.
Re: Why Men Love War (1984)
#70This is the single thing that freaked me out the most about our military and made me realize it wasn't the place for me when I joined at 17. Being a high school kid and meeting people who will look you straight in the eye and laugh as they talk about murdering someone, or watching their comrade's head explode. And not hypothetically, but in real, gruesome detail. I guess there's a need for that kind of person to exis…
> "people who will look you straight in the eye and laugh as they talk about murdering someone" Murdering, or killing? I ask because murder refers to a specific sort of unlawful killing, but it's not clear if you're using the term precisely. Most would probably say there's substantial difference between laughing about killing somebody who was trying to kill you (not murder) and laughing about killing a civilian in co…
Why is it unclear that he uses term badly? His statement was clear. It sounds more like you just don't want to believe that someone would brag to him specifically about murder.