Why Men Love War (1984) • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Men Love War (1984)

#31

Post by ShabbosGoy » Sat, May 05, 2018, 2:13 AM UTC

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #26

ShabbosGoy wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since this was written in the 80s and it’s Esquire, it’s highly possible that the author is a military-industrial complex shill. Or an apologist at best. The only people who love war are corrupted individuals. They have no morals.

When I was a young man, the military appealed to me. I liked its presentation of power. Its structure, order, and clear roles seemed to provide a sense of purpose. Maybe war itself would be bad, but the structures and forces that war brings seem like they wouldn't necessarily be bad for everyone. Not everyone thinks or feels like you. That doesn't necessarily make them morally corrupt individuals.

> Not everyone thinks or feels like you. That doesn't necessarily make them morally corrupt individuals.

Who are you trying to convince? :)

If violence appeals to you, then by all means, embrace it. If you are a morally wicked person, then embrace it. But denying your true nature is strange to me.

Re: Why Men Love War (1984)

#32

Post by 1000units » Sat, May 05, 2018, 2:18 AM UTC

ShabbosGoy wrote: post #23

1000units wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

War is a call to power and a purpose. It's also disgusting, but a man can get used to anything.

Since this was written in the 80s and it’s Esquire, it’s highly possible that the author is a military-industrial complex shill. Or an apologist at best. The only people who love war are corrupted individuals. They have no morals.

I agree with you except for the morals part. I think there's a fancy name for looking back fondly on traumatic experiences.

Re: Why Men Love War (1984)

#33

Post by 1000units » Sat, May 05, 2018, 2:20 AM UTC

themaninthedark wrote: post #28

mcphage wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, shit. I started doing that ‘cause I heard everyone else was, too...

I started because it saves time, urine is sterile when expelled and I am using soap to wash the rest of me which should clean everything after up. Makes sense to do it then, rather than use an extra couple gallons to flush 500ml of liquid to what is ultimately the same place. I also regularly clean the shower.

I feel the same way and have even been encouraging my girlfriend (who finds it gross) to try.

Re: Why Men Love War (1984)

#34

Post by danieltillett » Sat, May 05, 2018, 2:20 AM UTC

Humans appear to have a separate thought module when it comes to war - my guess is it is probably biological and has undergone a great deal of selection over the millions of years since the first proto-wars were fought successfully by our ancestors against our non-ancestors.

It is quite useful to keep this is mind when trying to organise social unitary to tackle important issues and why calls for a "war on x" fail unless the x is real war target.

Re: Why Men Love War (1984)

#35

Post by aphextron » Sat, May 05, 2018, 2:21 AM UTC

This is the single thing that freaked me out the most about our military and made me realize it wasn't the place for me when I joined at 17. Being a high school kid and meeting people who will look you straight in the eye and laugh as they talk about murdering someone, or watching their comrade's head explode. And not hypothetically, but in real, gruesome detail. I guess there's a need for that kind of person to exist to do our dirty work. But they are broken human beings and it is an absolute tragedy.

Re: Why Men Love War (1984)

#36

Post by lostlogin » Sat, May 05, 2018, 2:24 AM UTC

themaninthedark wrote: post #28

mcphage wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, shit. I started doing that ‘cause I heard everyone else was, too...

I started because it saves time, urine is sterile when expelled and I am using soap to wash the rest of me which should clean everything after up. Makes sense to do it then, rather than use an extra couple gallons to flush 500ml of liquid to what is ultimately the same place. I also regularly clean the shower.

> urine is sterile when expelled

No it isn’t. There are loads of studies saying this, here is one. http://jcm.asm.org/content/early/2013/12/19/JCM.02876-13

Re: Why Men Love War (1984)

#37

Post by winter_blue » Sat, May 05, 2018, 2:27 AM UTC

Mononokay wrote: post #5

> But I believe that most men who have been to war would have to admit, if they are honest, that somewhere inside themselves they loved it too, loved it as much as anything that has happened to them before or since. This sounds conspicuously like the conservative version of the people who say "All men secretly desire to rape women."

"All men" or "all people" is a trope that should be erased from our vocabulary. Most statements making claims (esp. about the motivation) of "all people" are incorrect. Every person has their own opinion, and you simply can't generalize. Unless it's naïve tautological claims like "all people need food to survive".

Re: Why Men Love War (1984)

#38

Post by copperx » Sat, May 05, 2018, 2:28 AM UTC

whatshisface wrote: post #16

Mononokay wrote: post #5

> But I believe that most men who have been to war would have to admit, if they are honest, that somewhere inside themselves they loved it too, loved it as much as anything that has happened to them before or since. This sounds conspicuously like the conservative version of the people who say "All men secretly desire to rape women."

I think this was written back before "people" became standard, in the 1980s I think "men" was still in vogue. It says men every few words, but that probably meant less than it does now. Aside, I think it's insane to argue that men "love war" while at the same time admitting knowledge of Vietnam. Weak men like to feel tough by pretending to like war, as if a politician would exert themselves more or less by calling in…

I genuinely think that some men love the idea of war. Men who haven't been in the battlefield, of course.

Re: Why Men Love War (1984)

#39

Post by JackCh » Sat, May 05, 2018, 2:29 AM UTC

aphextron wrote: post #35

This is the single thing that freaked me out the most about our military and made me realize it wasn't the place for me when I joined at 17. Being a high school kid and meeting people who will look you straight in the eye and laugh as they talk about murdering someone, or watching their comrade's head explode. And not hypothetically, but in real, gruesome detail. I guess there's a need for that kind of person to exis…

>"people who will look you straight in the eye and laugh as they talk about murdering someone"

Murdering, or killing? I ask because murder refers to a specific sort of unlawful killing, but it's not clear if you're using the term precisely. Most would probably say there's substantial difference between laughing about killing somebody who was trying to kill you (not murder) and laughing about killing a civilian in cold blood (murder).

Re: Why Men Love War (1984)

#40

Post by MikeTheGreat » Sat, May 05, 2018, 2:33 AM UTC

booleandilemma wrote: post #27

reificator wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or less controversially: "Everybody pees in the shower". No, sorry. I know you want to feel justified for doing so. But no.

As long as you’re alone in the shower I think it’s ok.

Ok, I'm going to say the following after I issue my caveat that I never expected to see a discussion about peeing in the shower here on HN BUT of all the places on the Internet HN is one of few places mature enough to handle such a discussion. :)

I'd like to offer the counter-point that for those people who enjoy peeing together (as a kink) the shower seems like a great place to pee together.