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Why Men Love War (1984)

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11–20 of 188 posts

Re: Why Men Love War (1984)

#11
post #8

> But I believe that most men who have been to war would have to admit, if they are honest, that somewhere inside themselves they loved it too, loved it as much as anything that has happened to them before or since. This sounds conspicuously like the conservative version of the people who say "All men secretly desire to rape women."

Is that really a conservative view? I’ve seen that sentiment on decidedly non conservative sites.

I welcome the day when ideas stand or fall on their own and are no longer pre-judged and rejected because they are “conservative”, “liberal”, “religious”, “scientific”, or whatever.

Re: Why Men Love War (1984)

#12

> But I believe that most men who have been to war would have to admit, if they are honest, that somewhere inside themselves they loved it too, loved it as much as anything that has happened to them before or since. This sounds conspicuously like the conservative version of the people who say "All men secretly desire to rape women."

Or less controversially: "Everybody pees in the shower". No, sorry. I know you want to feel justified for doing so. But no.

Well, shit. I started doing that ‘cause I heard everyone else was, too...

Re: Why Men Love War (1984)

#13
post #2

This is a compelling long read. If the subject is of interest, the movie Restrepo and this talk from Sebastian Junger [1] may be of interest, too. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wn0zEBhvwXY

The book, "War," from Sebastian Junger is well worth a read. I read it before seeing "Restrepo" (which I also recommend). On Goodreads, I wrote this about Junger's book and his take on men and war after finishing it:

"[T]he experience of warfare seems to strike a chord deep within the psyche of the men in combat. The bonding among men, the heroism, the swinging extremes of victory won only by the palpable threat of mortal danger, the adrenaline rush and flood of endorphins during and after battle seem to be almost overwhelming to the human animal, eclipsing any larger moral considerations or even the rest of what we might call everyday life. To the men in the thick of the fight, it's an unrepeatable experience that they find themselves strangely missing years afterwards. What they miss doesn't minimize the horror of what they've experienced, and that's what they find so strange. In some respects once the shooting starts, the soldiers have all the justification they need to continue indefinitely. The immediacy of the experience provides satisfaction enough and requires no further rationale. In some ways it creates a microcosm of life and packs more than a lifetime's worth of living into its fleeting moments. How can life afterwards compare?"

Re: Why Men Love War (1984)

#14
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that really a conservative view? I’ve seen that sentiment on decidedly non conservative sites.

I welcome the day when ideas stand or fall on their own and are no longer pre-judged and rejected because they are “conservative”, “liberal”, “religious”, “scientific”, or whatever.

My more educated friends go a step further and start calling things 'Hegelian' and such when I'm just trying to get directly at matters.

Re: Why Men Love War (1984)

#15
post #3

I find it ironic that he talks about the power of love after ditching the Vietnamese girl he was going to have a future with "the way all men betrayed the women who helped them through the war".

Smearing someone's reputation is probably ok, but only with substantive sources. Otherwise it's far too easy to just throw out a half-truth.

Read the last 7-8 paragraphs. The talk about "the power of love" cheapens what is otherwise a resonating piece. No where else does love (apart from "loving" war) come into play.

Re: Why Men Love War (1984)

#16

> But I believe that most men who have been to war would have to admit, if they are honest, that somewhere inside themselves they loved it too, loved it as much as anything that has happened to them before or since. This sounds conspicuously like the conservative version of the people who say "All men secretly desire to rape women."

I think this was written back before "people" became standard, in the 1980s I think "men" was still in vogue. It says men every few words, but that probably meant less than it does now.

Aside, I think it's insane to argue that men "love war" while at the same time admitting knowledge of Vietnam. Weak men like to feel tough by pretending to like war, as if a politician would exert themselves more or less by calling in a strike.

Re: Why Men Love War (1984)

#17
I liked reading about the two forces at play here. The ideal self vs the reality of who you really are. Extreme moments such as war can cause you to learn so much more about your darker aspects.

Great read.

Re: Why Men Love War (1984)

#18

> But I believe that most men who have been to war would have to admit, if they are honest, that somewhere inside themselves they loved it too, loved it as much as anything that has happened to them before or since. This sounds conspicuously like the conservative version of the people who say "All men secretly desire to rape women."

War is to a degree more consensual. BDSM scores very highly in taboo surveys. I don't think the author would say all men love executing POWs or anything like that.

Also, not to support that view, but the amount of sexual violence that has historically accompanied war is startling. There's obviously something to it.

Re: Why Men Love War (1984)

#19
post #9
post #2

This is a compelling long read. If the subject is of interest, the movie Restrepo and this talk from Sebastian Junger [1] may be of interest, too. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wn0zEBhvwXY

> 42 American soldiers and many more Afghans were killed in the "Valley of Death" before it was finally abandoned, written off as more trouble than it was worth. Only 42 to get that nickname? After the World Wars happened? Wow. We've gotten soft in modern times.

More like, we’ve reduced the casualty rate in armed conflict? Plus, you’re forgetting about those who were killed that were not American.

Re: Why Men Love War (1984)

#20

> But I believe that most men who have been to war would have to admit, if they are honest, that somewhere inside themselves they loved it too, loved it as much as anything that has happened to them before or since. This sounds conspicuously like the conservative version of the people who say "All men secretly desire to rape women."

Or less controversially: "Everybody pees in the shower". No, sorry. I know you want to feel justified for doing so. But no.

Uh, what’s your issue with pee in the shower?

Of similar quandary: Is it actually controversial? How do you put a stop to it? How do you detect it? Are there practical reasons for it being a real problem, and not mere squeamishness?

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