Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

theglobeandmail.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

441–450 of 715 posts

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#441

Post by mmt »

neilk wrote: post #350
TulliusCicero wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has a fairly high tolerance for weirdness and novelty in general because of its extreme fixation on individualism. Especially so when you compare it to most other high income countries like Japan, Germany, Norway, Switzerland, etc.

People say that a lot but I'm not so sure. Half of my American friends had to move to the SFBA not just for a job, but because nobody understood them back home, or they'd be literally persecuted for being who they were. And these aren't always tiny rural towns. The coastal cities embrace some kinds of individualism for sure.

Depending on how broadly you define "coastal cities", you'd be including a huge proportion of the US population. Might it even be a majority?

If it's a majority, then I think it's safe enough characterize the individualistic attitude as American.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#442

Post by wolco »

ahelwer wrote: post #353
ryanobjc wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The liberalness of Canada is overhyped. The reality is Canada is deeply conservative. It's possible to have universal health care and be conservative, that's only a oxymoron in the US. To quote this excellent article[1]: "the default setting of the Canadian male: a dull but stern dad, who, under a facade of apparent normalcy and common sense, conceals a reserve of barely contained hostility toward anyone who might ro…

Honestly I gotta agree with you here, bud. When I was growing up in Canada I had to keep my dreams a secret. If you had any grand goals people thought you were an egomaniacal weirdo. It wasn't until I seriously dated someone here in the US that I realized the difference: as part of the "delving into each others' inner lives" phase of the early relationship, I sheepishly admitted I had dreams of doing some pretty big…

As a Canadian thank you for your story. I felt somewhat the same way but thought it was just me.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#443

Post by rayiner »

ahelwer wrote: post #353
ryanobjc wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The liberalness of Canada is overhyped. The reality is Canada is deeply conservative. It's possible to have universal health care and be conservative, that's only a oxymoron in the US. To quote this excellent article[1]: "the default setting of the Canadian male: a dull but stern dad, who, under a facade of apparent normalcy and common sense, conceals a reserve of barely contained hostility toward anyone who might ro…

Honestly I gotta agree with you here, bud. When I was growing up in Canada I had to keep my dreams a secret. If you had any grand goals people thought you were an egomaniacal weirdo. It wasn't until I seriously dated someone here in the US that I realized the difference: as part of the "delving into each others' inner lives" phase of the early relationship, I sheepishly admitted I had dreams of doing some pretty big…

> Here in the USA it's normal for everyone to have big dreams, and weird if they don't. I think I like it

It makes Americans easily manipulated and exploited.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#444

Post by dmode »

pm90 wrote: post #410
netheril96 wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a lot of immigrant tech talent in Canada is inherently risk averse by virtue of being primarily chinese and indian tech workers Aren't a lot of immigrant tech talent in Silicon Valley Chinese and Indian too? Or maybe even the majority? Besides, China has a very vibrant VC culture, second only to the US. Therefore being Chinese and being risk taking are definitely not in conflict.

> Therefore being Chinese and being risk taking are definitely not in conflict. I think the author is pointing out that being a Chinese/Indian immigrant is in conflict with risk taking. You don't have to look too hard for this. Most Chinese/Indian immigrants gravitate to low-risk jobs, specifically at larger companies, usually for visa/immigration related issues.

I am Indian, and would love to take a risk. But I am stuck on greencard backlog and not allowed to start a company, probably for the next 10-20 years

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#445

Post by ajeet_dhaliwal »

josephjrobison wrote: post #181
ng12 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> who are hesitant to move to USA because of immigration restrictions. Where does this perception come from? Canada has stricter immigration rules than the USA. EDIT: Specifically what I'm talking about is that Canada only allows in immigrants who are economically desirable and speak English or French.

Kinda unrelated to immigration, but I've heard Canadian border patrol is actually more harsh than American border control. Anyone with experience that can verify?

I have found this to be the case with the customs. This is mostly because Canada’s custom thresholds are absurdly low in comparison to other countries. Both when entering the country but also when posting something in, see: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/rob-comme...

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#446

Post by ummonk »

leonroy wrote: post #91
octorian wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which train was this? There are two major train systems going through the area. There's Caltrain, which will be full of professionals if you ride it close to working hours. Then there's VTA Light Rail, which is effectively "the bus on rails." Later in the evening it will be full of the type you describe.

Edited my post too late - it was light rail from Gish maybe to Ohlone/Chynoweth. Had to change at Santa Clara.

Yeah that's VTA. Not really used by professionals.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#447

Post by maxerickson »

antoniuschan99 wrote: post #435
vhodges wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree there's more ambition/drive in the US (Just observed, never having worked there), but there's lots here too. People do start companies. I think the bay area tends to do a lot more experimentation darwinian style, but I suspect it's because they can (more seed money/angels, etc)

It's the East Coast vs West Coast mentality. West coast has always been about experiment wheareas east coast is more conservative. I've always wondered if it was because the Europeans took hold of the East coast first and it was only the more brave who would take on the Westword journey. Perhaps that mentality is still engrained in the culture? I think Dragons Den vs Shark Tank is a clear example of how much stronger…

Sailing across an ocean to who knows what is pretty brave.

I expect the enormous wealth captured by computers and software gives people the leeway to experiment.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#448

Post by mmt »

jedberg wrote: post #268
whack wrote: post #66

Canada is in a really tough spot here. I've always admired Canadian culture/values, and in the abstract, would love to live in Canada one day. However, as a Software developer, the compensation and opportunities that one can find in SF/Seattle/NYC dwarf anything in Canada. Until this changes, Canada is always going to lose its brightest engineers, which will in turn worsen the problem even further. Some solutions I c…

> Aggressively encourage/fund/facilitate startups. They tried that a few times. I know because I was an advisor to one of the biggest incubators in Canada. The government even gives cash grants to startups. But as soon as the company gets big, they either 1) open an engineering office in the Bay Area or 2) Sell, and the move to the Bay Area because they were just acquired by a Bay Area company who is making them move…

> But as soon as the company gets big

FTA: 'A lack of successful “scale-up” tech firms in Canada has been cited as one of the reasons research development spending and productivity here have lagged other developed countries.'

> but they have a really hard time attracting local capital.

So is the problem, then, that "trying" has, so far, involved running incubators and grants and what's necessary, in addition, is incentivizing local capital to invest?

Other commenters have suggested tax breaks, which I personally believe is a state's greatest incentive "lever". Perhaps a lower (maybe even zero) capital gains tax rate on startup investments?

Otherwise, it doesn't seem like there's been any aggressive encouragement/funding/facilitation, as proposed by the parent comment.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#449

Post by wolco »

walshemj wrote: post #342
whack wrote: post #66

Canada is in a really tough spot here. I've always admired Canadian culture/values, and in the abstract, would love to live in Canada one day. However, as a Software developer, the compensation and opportunities that one can find in SF/Seattle/NYC dwarf anything in Canada. Until this changes, Canada is always going to lose its brightest engineers, which will in turn worsen the problem even further. Some solutions I c…

No Canadian companies need to pay more. I suspect that Canada has inherited from the UK the attitude that STEM (apart from the Medical profession) is basically for greasy engineers who shouldn't be allowed to get to above themselves.

Working for the government one can get that feeling that tech is a waste but there is an unlimited desire for phd's in unrelated fields getting hired in positions that sound great title wise but involve more technical skills. They wonder why these people keep leaving.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#450

Post by sidlls »

analyst74 wrote: post #310
sidlls wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a CL search just to show you what you could get on the Peninsula. It's not the city, but it's close enough. https://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/pen/apa?sort=priceasc&nh... The "near downtown San Mateo" listing is a 5-minute bike ride from Caltrain, 600sq ft and US$1785. So about CAD$600 more than your rent.

The equivalent of $1750 Toronto condo (modern high rise with all the amenities) is going to be very hard to find in SV except some of the newer constructions at $3500~4000. A friend has a one bedroom in San Mateo in the sub $3000 range. The building is very old, no amenities or views to speak of, and not even in-suite laundry.

Your friend is getting hosed. I have a 3 bed, 2.5 ba 1600 sq ft duplex with a yard near downtown for $4k/mo. It's older, but there's nothing wrong with it, it has a garage and a W/D, driveway, etc.
Post reply on HN