What is that as a percentage of the total number of calls?
NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report
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Re: NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report
#32I think the bottom line is that the American people do not really mind the NSA doing this. I suspect this is because most people do not realize just how powerful and privacy-invading metadata surveillance is, or how the dataset does not need to be added to indefinitely to have tremendous value to law enforcement (for appropriate and inappropriate uses) once it exists at sufficient scale.
Part of the problem is that privacy invasion is only visible when it results in arrests, leaking, or some other use of the power to effect change. Most people will never experience someone obviously exploiting their trust here. Of course, the complacency of us individuals reduces the security and privacy of us all. Realistically the NSA hasn’t been successful in reducing terrorist threats; in fact, the correlation is…
>Realistically the NSA hasn’t been successful in reducing terrorist threats; in fact, the correlation is negative.
What are you basing this on?
Re: NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report
#33Automatically collecting everyone's cell phone data, has software automatically installed in Smart TV's everywhere, monitors your online footprint (emails, social media[of course]). All those warning from Snowden all those secret software reveals from wikileaks an untold amount of funding from congress with virtually no oversight. And yet tons of bad things keep happening to regular citizens in the US. What exactly d…
>And yet tons of bad things keep happening to regular citizens in the US. Like what? I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about here. >What exactly does the NSA do? Whom are they protecting? Cause it sure is not the average citizen. ??? Sounds like you know absolutely nothing about espionage. Maybe you are right, but intelligence agencies don't talk about their activities, even their successes, for very goo…
Yes and I imagine even having records on everyone wouldn’t be enough to catch all cases. Some of the recent offenders really seemed to only identify as problems during the act. No chance to stop them.
Re: NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report
#34Automatically collecting everyone's cell phone data, has software automatically installed in Smart TV's everywhere, monitors your online footprint (emails, social media[of course]). All those warning from Snowden all those secret software reveals from wikileaks an untold amount of funding from congress with virtually no oversight. And yet tons of bad things keep happening to regular citizens in the US. What exactly d…
You're not the only one. What hurts the most for me is that I wrote my doctoral thesis on privacy back in 2003 and I touched on a number of these issues. 9/11 ruined my career, though. After 9/11, nobody wanted privacy or to even talk about privacy. I knew all this was going to happen. David Brin knew all this was going to happen, and so did a lot of other writers and pundits. And here we sit now, wondering what to do now that we have empowered a monster that without much more work is going to get us all killed.
Re: NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report
#35What is that as a percentage of the total number of calls?
With 300M people in the US? Of them, at least 250M have phones, so... two calls per person per year? (Double it if both ends of the conversation are in the US.) I'm going to guess that the average is more like four calls per day than four calls per year, so... maybe 0.3% of calls?
That's far too many. And yet, it's still a very long way from blanket surveillance.
Re: NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
The nation needs a “tax sit-in” - everyone ridicules this, but wtf do people think the boston tea party was about. If you want governments to listen without armed rebellion, the only thing one can do is refuse taxes. They know that this is the inly othe tool you have - and thats why taxes are woven into the fabric of the economy such that its automatically taken without you having any control over them. Its also why…
"Government: If you refuse to pay unjust taxes, your property will be confiscated. If you attempt to defend your property, you will be arrested. If you resist arrest, you will be clubbed. If you defend yourself against clubbing, you will be shot dead. These procedures are known as the Rule of Law." - Edward Abbey
It's a pretty sad situation we have allowed ourselves to get in to, isn't it? Hey, fwiw, the US could be far more brutal on its citizens if the powers that be desired. The iron hand is wearing a soft glove for a bit longer, anyways. But rest assured, they will get around to the violent part sooner or later because every corrupt system always does.
Re: NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
If the people who control 60% of the nations wealth want to do this, all the complaining in the world isn't going to do anything. Can you elaborate on this? Why are the wealthy interested in empowering the NSA?
What he is saying, I think, is that because of Citizens United, money controls our politics at this point and it really doesn't really matter what Joe Smith thinks. We can prove that wrong in November, of course. EDIT: Its true that the democrats are just as bought, but I have faith that they would also appoint a supreme court that would rule the other way as well.
> We can prove that wrong in November, of course.
The Democrats are no better when it comes to these issues, look at their voting record.
Re: NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report
#38Automatically collecting everyone's cell phone data, has software automatically installed in Smart TV's everywhere, monitors your online footprint (emails, social media[of course]). All those warning from Snowden all those secret software reveals from wikileaks an untold amount of funding from congress with virtually no oversight. And yet tons of bad things keep happening to regular citizens in the US. What exactly d…
>And yet tons of bad things keep happening to regular citizens in the US. Like what? I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about here. >What exactly does the NSA do? Whom are they protecting? Cause it sure is not the average citizen. ??? Sounds like you know absolutely nothing about espionage. Maybe you are right, but intelligence agencies don't talk about their activities, even their successes, for very goo…
>Like what? I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about here.
Uh, the constant mass shootings that have occurred over the past year wherein, 100% of the time, the perp was already known to police and FBI and had a very public troubling online presence detailing their years of mental instability and virulent racism?
>intelligence agencies don't talk about their activities, even their successes, for very good reason.
The hell are you talking about? The FBI is constantly publicly congratulating themselves when they "foil" a "plot" their agent provocateurs have cooked up.
https://citationsneeded.libsyn.com/ep-31-fake-isis-plots-and...
The NSA doesn't like to brag as much as the FBI does but they're clearly just as responsible for dropping the ball on domestic terrorism every other week when yet another mass shooting happens...
Re: NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
If the people who control 60% of the nations wealth want to do this, all the complaining in the world isn't going to do anything. Can you elaborate on this? Why are the wealthy interested in empowering the NSA?
What he is saying, I think, is that because of Citizens United, money controls our politics at this point and it really doesn't really matter what Joe Smith thinks. We can prove that wrong in November, of course. EDIT: Its true that the democrats are just as bought, but I have faith that they would also appoint a supreme court that would rule the other way as well.
Citizens United changed nothing.
Money has controlled politics in the US since the very beginning and without exception. In fact, money controlled politics in the distant US past to a far greater degree than it does today. In Rockefeller's time or before, you could do almost anything when it came to buying political favor, there were few limits on buying politicians.
The Chinese foreign funding scandals that followed the Clintons in both Bill and Hillary's campaigns - what was China buying? That was part of the deal that saw Bill spend vast amounts of time & effort lobbying to get China into the WTO during his Presidency, even going aggressively against his own party and voter interests.
"May 24, 2000, Bill Clinton clinched what many believed would be the last great legislative victory of his presidency. That afternoon, the House of Representatives voted to award China permanent normal trade relations, effectively backing Beijing’s long-in-the-making bid to join the World Trade Organization. The historic deal had been Clinton’s top priority in the waning days of his last term—a move he hoped would improve relations with the world’s most populous nation, while cementing his own legacy of using free trade to advance America’s foreign policy interests. It had been opposed by labor unions wary of competition from poorly paid foreign workers and championed by corporations salivating over 1.3 billion potential Chinese customers (the business lobby had spent millions on TV ads supporting the pact). In the end, after much wrangling, 73 Democrats joined 164 Republicans to pass the agreement, which was expected to glide through the Senate."
http://www.slate.com/articles/business/the_next_20/2016/09/w...
Re: NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report
#40"In a statement, Timothy Barrett, a spokesman at the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, which released the annual report, said the government “has not altered the manner in which it uses its authority to obtain call detail records.” "
This is the issue, this is all legal.