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NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report

reuters.com

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Re: NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report

#11

Post by chatmasta »

samstave wrote: post #7
citilife wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the people that do realize, short of armed rebellion, can do very little. If the people who control 60% of the nations wealth want to do this, all the complaining in the world isn't going to do anything.

The nation needs a “tax sit-in” - everyone ridicules this, but wtf do people think the boston tea party was about. If you want governments to listen without armed rebellion, the only thing one can do is refuse taxes. They know that this is the inly othe tool you have - and thats why taxes are woven into the fabric of the economy such that its automatically taken without you having any control over them. Its also why…

The problem is w2 employees (i.e. most of the workforce) get their taxes taken out of their paychecks automatically. It would be nearly impossible to withhold those taxes from the government.

Interestingly, the more independent contractors in a population, the easier it would be to stage a tax sit-in.

Re: NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report

#13

Post by mcone »

samstave wrote: post #7
citilife wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the people that do realize, short of armed rebellion, can do very little. If the people who control 60% of the nations wealth want to do this, all the complaining in the world isn't going to do anything.

The nation needs a “tax sit-in” - everyone ridicules this, but wtf do people think the boston tea party was about. If you want governments to listen without armed rebellion, the only thing one can do is refuse taxes. They know that this is the inly othe tool you have - and thats why taxes are woven into the fabric of the economy such that its automatically taken without you having any control over them. Its also why…

"Government: If you refuse to pay unjust taxes, your property will be confiscated. If you attempt to defend your property, you will be arrested. If you resist arrest, you will be clubbed. If you defend yourself against clubbing, you will be shot dead. These procedures are known as the Rule of Law."

- Edward Abbey

Re: NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report

#14

Post by mkempe »

samstave wrote: post #7
citilife wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the people that do realize, short of armed rebellion, can do very little. If the people who control 60% of the nations wealth want to do this, all the complaining in the world isn't going to do anything.

The nation needs a “tax sit-in” - everyone ridicules this, but wtf do people think the boston tea party was about. If you want governments to listen without armed rebellion, the only thing one can do is refuse taxes. They know that this is the inly othe tool you have - and thats why taxes are woven into the fabric of the economy such that its automatically taken without you having any control over them. Its also why…

There are municipalities in the USA that do not extort property taxes -- I've heard of one in Colorado, one in Arizona, a few in Texas, and some in Alaska.

Since a common justification is to finance public schools, I suppose that complete privatization of education would be a necessary step in order to vastly reduce or generally abolish property taxes.

Re: NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report

#15

Post by wmeredith »

coralreef wrote: post #6
citilife wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the people that do realize, short of armed rebellion, can do very little. If the people who control 60% of the nations wealth want to do this, all the complaining in the world isn't going to do anything.

If the people who control 60% of the nations wealth want to do this, all the complaining in the world isn't going to do anything. Can you elaborate on this? Why are the wealthy interested in empowering the NSA?

Mostly because the NSA will enforce the status quo which has made them powerful and the oligarchs rich (and powerful). It's a self-feeding mechanism. Read more about this phenomenon–the beige dictatorship– here: http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2013/02/politica...

Re: NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report

#16

Post by rhizome »

olfactory wrote: post #2

I think the bottom line is that the American people do not really mind the NSA doing this. I suspect this is because most people do not realize just how powerful and privacy-invading metadata surveillance is, or how the dataset does not need to be added to indefinitely to have tremendous value to law enforcement (for appropriate and inappropriate uses) once it exists at sufficient scale.

Not to be glib, but I think I saw this comment a couple weeks ago, substituting "Facebook" for "the NSA."

Re: NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report

#17

Post by anoncoward778 »

Automatically collecting everyone's cell phone data, has software automatically installed in Smart TV's everywhere, monitors your online footprint (emails, social media[of course]). All those warning from Snowden all those secret software reveals from wikileaks an untold amount of funding from congress with virtually no oversight. And yet tons of bad things keep happening to regular citizens in the US. What exactly does the NSA do? Whom are they protecting? Cause it sure is not the average citizen. Just a random venting from a pissed of copper-top battery.

Re: NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report

#18

Post by jahvo »

olfactory wrote: post #2

I think the bottom line is that the American people do not really mind the NSA doing this. I suspect this is because most people do not realize just how powerful and privacy-invading metadata surveillance is, or how the dataset does not need to be added to indefinitely to have tremendous value to law enforcement (for appropriate and inappropriate uses) once it exists at sufficient scale.

Or maybe they think this is acceptable, in the interest of security. I personally find this kind of stuff acceptable.

Re: NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report

#19

Post by java-man »

rhizome wrote: post #16
olfactory wrote: post #2

I think the bottom line is that the American people do not really mind the NSA doing this. I suspect this is because most people do not realize just how powerful and privacy-invading metadata surveillance is, or how the dataset does not need to be added to indefinitely to have tremendous value to law enforcement (for appropriate and inappropriate uses) once it exists at sufficient scale.

Not to be glib, but I think I saw this comment a couple weeks ago, substituting "Facebook" for "the NSA."

the message does not change. we, as a society, seem to be ok with trading privacy for free fb or illusion of safety.

Re: NSA collected 500M U.S. call records in 2017, a sharp rise: official report

#20

Post by mkempe »

Does "collected" mean that these calls have been searched for criminal or terrorist activity? I recall that Clapper --or someone like him-- was using that distinction in order to claim that the NSA wasn't "collecting" the phone calls of US citizens.

edit: ah yes, it was Clapper; to Congress, in 2013. [1]

[1] https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-11-17/lawmakers-re...

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