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Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

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Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#141

Post by mitjak »

pmalynin wrote: post #6
paulashbourne wrote: post #2

65.93% of Software Engineering graduates end up working in the US after graduation. Not a great statistic for Canada's tech industry.

I'm in this situation, that is I'm graduating next year and I already have a job lined up in SV. Personally, there just isn't anything for me here. I hate winter (depression for 7 months, anyone?). Everything is far. Entertainment is sparse unless it involves 1) hockey or 2) drinking, or both. Pay is shit. Prices are shit. Selection is shit (have you tried using Amazon CA?). Food, at least where I am, is good but no…

I'm gonna guess you're from Vancouver :)

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#142

Post by vkou »

pmalynin wrote: post #21
2RTZZSro wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which city in Canada are you studying in? Have you spent some time in SV?

Edmonton. I worked in MTV for 4 months, 4 months in Seattle, and I'm leaving on Monday to SV again for the summer.

That's not a Canada problem, that's an Edmonton problem. You'll have all the same complaints if you lived in Gary, Indiana.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#143

Post by [deleted] »

privacypoller wrote: post #55
m-p-3 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm wondering how that salary difference really is when comparing the cost of living of many Canadian cities vs Silicon Valley, the taxation rate and the social services provided (universal healthcare, etc).

The cost of living between Vancouver and Seattle is very comparable, especially when you account for your biggest input costs, housing, food & transportation. The Salaries most definitely are not. The biggies south of the border set the baseline salary for everyone; when they move north they match the existing, much lower rates. If I was a new-ish grad and wanted to stay in the PNW there's not a chance I'd pick Vanco…

[deleted]

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#144

Post by greaseball »

mabbo wrote: post #118
Kelbit wrote: post #13

If Canadian companies were willing to offer a competitive salary, maybe Canadian grads would stay. It doesn't even have to be 1:1 with the US, even 75% would be nice. As it is, there is little incentive to stay here. I know a new grad who was faced with the choice of staying in Canada to earn $40-50k CAD per year starting, or heading to the US where he had a job offer with one of the big five for $120k USD plus signi…

> staying in Canada to earn $40-50k CAD per year starting Amazon Toronto starts new grads at like $80-100k last I heard. It's not as good as you can get in Silicon Valley, but rent in Toronto (while still high) is much lower than in the Valley.

Developers in Toronto are getting a raw deal. The cost of living is orders of magnitude higher than the rest of the country and devs aren't making the difference up with higher wages.

So glad I made the decision to move from Toronto to Atlantic Canada this past year. I'm actually making more money in New Brunswick than I did in Toronto and can afford to own a 4 bedroom house instead of renting a 600 square foot condo.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#145

Post by cmrdporcupine »

mabbo wrote: post #118
Kelbit wrote: post #13

If Canadian companies were willing to offer a competitive salary, maybe Canadian grads would stay. It doesn't even have to be 1:1 with the US, even 75% would be nice. As it is, there is little incentive to stay here. I know a new grad who was faced with the choice of staying in Canada to earn $40-50k CAD per year starting, or heading to the US where he had a job offer with one of the big five for $120k USD plus signi…

> staying in Canada to earn $40-50k CAD per year starting Amazon Toronto starts new grads at like $80-100k last I heard. It's not as good as you can get in Silicon Valley, but rent in Toronto (while still high) is much lower than in the Valley.

Citation needed on the rents. Yes, maybe out in the suburbs, but if you want any kind of quality of life where you're not constantly commuting...

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#146

Post by eriktrautman »

downrightmike wrote: post #107
arcticbull wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- Canada is already pursuing non-American engineers, even advertising along the 101 [1], and it's working [2]. - Canada does offer some tax breaks [3] and grants to startups, but more is also welcome. - Agreed that there should be a bigger focus on startups. I wonder if having provinces create VC funds (like Investissment Quebec [4]) tailored specifically to startups would help here. [1] http://mgalligan.com/post/523…

Don't want to pay any taxes, and maybe hire 1 person within 5 years? Try NewYork: https://esd.ny.gov/startup-ny-program

Hiring anyone in new york is a bloody nightmare. Strongly avoid if possible.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#147

Post by ajeet_dhaliwal »

_xzxj wrote: post #134
whack wrote: post #66

Canada is in a really tough spot here. I've always admired Canadian culture/values, and in the abstract, would love to live in Canada one day. However, as a Software developer, the compensation and opportunities that one can find in SF/Seattle/NYC dwarf anything in Canada. Until this changes, Canada is always going to lose its brightest engineers, which will in turn worsen the problem even further. Some solutions I c…

Canadian here (who lives outside of Canada but recently did a stint there for a bit) and this will sound negative but f-it. Canadian culture sucks when it comes to trying new things. Canada has some extra safety net but the culture is puritanical and conservative and nobody wants to go out on a limb and try something new and crazy. Not like Americans. Those that do are constantly questioned by everybody. The idea of…

The idea of being an entrepreneur, in the GTA especially, is buying a second house in the suburbs and hoping the housing market continues rising.

That had me LOL because I think it’s so true. If you were to suggest perhaps to start a business that innovates you’d be considered crazy. Although of course the new tech out of the USA will be adopted by all immediately.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#148

Post by jboy55 »

wk_end wrote: post #122
Kelbit wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's more a case of VCs not being calibrated to the real cost of doing business. Canada is a first world country with a GDP per capita not much less than the states. There is plenty of wealth available that could be invested in tech. It's just Bay Street generally doesn't want to, because they don't understand the tech business. Name one prominent Canadian VC firm - I can't think of any, and I'm Canadian. But…

It's been suggested to me that because of Canada's long history of a resource-based economy, Canadian investors are far more accustomed to the long, slow model of: let's research a site for several years, make sure it'll be profitable, build a town , and get to work. The higher risk, fail-fast nature of VC investing is just too foreign to their business model.

One of the problems is the public demands a lower risk investment. A single Theranos would knee cap the entire VC industry in Canada. "How could this be allowed to happen?!" The stories of LPs losing their $50k investments would lead the newspapers for months.

In Silicon Valley its a, 'Oh that sucks, but the smart money stayed away, that should have been a tell for the other investors".

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#149

Post by mitjak »

I'm surprised at the lack of answers that suggest a positive opinion about working in Canada. I personally love the health care and other social benefits, the winters, the multi-cultural city (Toronto), the people, and the lack of gun ownership, among many other things. SV strikes me as a monoculture. I don't want to live at my workplace. The opportunities are fewer but there's also higher demand. My workplace has been struggling to find senior talent with very competitive salaries and perks.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#150

Post by chrischen »

whack wrote: post #66

Canada is in a really tough spot here. I've always admired Canadian culture/values, and in the abstract, would love to live in Canada one day. However, as a Software developer, the compensation and opportunities that one can find in SF/Seattle/NYC dwarf anything in Canada. Until this changes, Canada is always going to lose its brightest engineers, which will in turn worsen the problem even further. Some solutions I c…

It will be hard to get startups to be based in a Canada if their target market is the US. We’re talking a difference of 36 million people vs 300 million. When it comes down to it Canada looks big but is a really tiny country.
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