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Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

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Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#41

Post by huangc10 »

mi100hael wrote: post #24
huangc10 wrote: post #9

Canadian working in SV for almost a decade here. Yeah sure, it was about the technology, job, but a lot of it has to do with lifestyle (which the article fails to mention, and can't really be measured). Since I've been here, I've learned how to drive stick shift, sky dived, and been on way more adventure than what I could have if I stayed at home. It's about adventure and taking a risk. Not necessarily about the mone…

I follow what you're getting at, but don't you think a large part of that is due to your own attitudes/perception? It's not like there aren't people in Canada who are doing exciting things like sky diving, let alone driving stick.

True, a lot of things is due in how a person's attitude and perception. I think somewhat has to do with freedom and positive cash flow and another user commented.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#42

Post by fbernier »

huangc10 wrote: post #9

Canadian working in SV for almost a decade here. Yeah sure, it was about the technology, job, but a lot of it has to do with lifestyle (which the article fails to mention, and can't really be measured). Since I've been here, I've learned how to drive stick shift, sky dived, and been on way more adventure than what I could have if I stayed at home. It's about adventure and taking a risk. Not necessarily about the mone…

> I've learned how to drive stick shift

It's a well known fact that the amazing opportunity of learning to drive stick shift is something you can't do in Canada. Luckily the US are there for that!

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#43

Post by ironrabbit »

m-p-3 wrote: post #17
Kelbit wrote: post #13

If Canadian companies were willing to offer a competitive salary, maybe Canadian grads would stay. It doesn't even have to be 1:1 with the US, even 75% would be nice. As it is, there is little incentive to stay here. I know a new grad who was faced with the choice of staying in Canada to earn $40-50k CAD per year starting, or heading to the US where he had a job offer with one of the big five for $120k USD plus signi…

I'm wondering how that salary difference really is when comparing the cost of living of many Canadian cities vs Silicon Valley, the taxation rate and the social services provided (universal healthcare, etc).

Born/raised in Toronto, been in SF for ~4 years. It's not even close. Yes, my rent in SF is high, but my total comp is six figures higher than what I could earn in Toronto. Wages are considerably higher, even when you factor in cost of living, services, and everything else.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#44

Post by Hextinium »

gruez wrote: post #12

>There is a cost to such a heavy brain drain: governments spend billions subsidizing the cost of university education, while students who go on to work for foreign companies help fuel the economic growth of those countries there's a pretty simple fix for that: have the government bill/charge you the subsidy when you're in university. it's not a student loan, and it doesn't appear on your credit report. you pay it bac…

That would work to make it so that tax money doesn't get used on brai drain but when you are facing double the income to move to the states it is still economically viable to move. I only see your solution solving cost of subsidies not the larger issue.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#45

Post by 52-6F-62 »

2RTZZSro wrote: post #11
huangc10 wrote: post #9

Canadian working in SV for almost a decade here. Yeah sure, it was about the technology, job, but a lot of it has to do with lifestyle (which the article fails to mention, and can't really be measured). Since I've been here, I've learned how to drive stick shift, sky dived, and been on way more adventure than what I could have if I stayed at home. It's about adventure and taking a risk. Not necessarily about the mone…

Was it the opportunities that are available in SV that make it possible to go on these adventures or something else like increased cash flow combined with more free time? Despite the higher salaries how are you coping with the high cost of living and high tax rates?

edit: Think I misread your comment at first, but I'll leave this here anyway for some added perspective— comparing to Toronto.

Average rent in SV ~$3500 Average rent in TO ~$2000

Rent 1yr TO ~$24000

Take home after income tax before other deductions and expenses at $55000/yr is ~ $44000. Count on another couple grand in standard deductions before medical insurance.

Then add gov. or bank student loans payments (if you have them), groceries, transit, etc. Let me just say that you won't be buying a car. Maybe a dog if you're lucky— but if you work full time from an office and commute 30 mins to 1 hr each way that probably means ~$450/mo in dog-walker payments. So maybe not.

You won't end up on the street and you can save if you don't really do anything but go sit in a park, but it does make saving difficult.

To purchase a house here it's estimated that you'll need to be making at least $100,000/yr before the bank will even look at you. So there's that.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#46

Post by monkeynotes »

pmalynin wrote: post #6
paulashbourne wrote: post #2

65.93% of Software Engineering graduates end up working in the US after graduation. Not a great statistic for Canada's tech industry.

I'm in this situation, that is I'm graduating next year and I already have a job lined up in SV. Personally, there just isn't anything for me here. I hate winter (depression for 7 months, anyone?). Everything is far. Entertainment is sparse unless it involves 1) hockey or 2) drinking, or both. Pay is shit. Prices are shit. Selection is shit (have you tried using Amazon CA?). Food, at least where I am, is good but no…

Not that I advocate Vancouver in its entirety, but Vancouver has good food, good pay, and loads of outdoors activities and weekend adventure possibilities along with a shit-ton of tech jobs that need filling. The weather is pretty normal too, not far off of SF.

Problem with Vancouver is it's kind of dull entertainment-wise. Lacks vibrancy of some US cities. It's more or less as expensive to live as SF is, and obviously has less of a startup culture.

But overall I'd agree Canada is not all that appealing to people who have choices. Had I been able to choose when I was younger I'd have not ended up in Vancouver, but it sure beats out (IMO) London, UK which was my alternative.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#47

Post by guiolo »

Kelbit wrote: post #13

If Canadian companies were willing to offer a competitive salary, maybe Canadian grads would stay. It doesn't even have to be 1:1 with the US, even 75% would be nice. As it is, there is little incentive to stay here. I know a new grad who was faced with the choice of staying in Canada to earn $40-50k CAD per year starting, or heading to the US where he had a job offer with one of the big five for $120k USD plus signi…

> Canadian tech companies love to complain about lack of talent, but they're not willing to pay for it [...]

They most likely to a large extent can't. It's just a different model both as comapnies and country. In general you can rarely win by being a lesser version of something else. Canada can, hopefully, do a lot of things the US can't. Those are the things it should do to attract people.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#48

Post by bambataa »

Kelbit wrote: post #13

If Canadian companies were willing to offer a competitive salary, maybe Canadian grads would stay. It doesn't even have to be 1:1 with the US, even 75% would be nice. As it is, there is little incentive to stay here. I know a new grad who was faced with the choice of staying in Canada to earn $40-50k CAD per year starting, or heading to the US where he had a job offer with one of the big five for $120k USD plus signi…

How do the working hours / culture compare?

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#49

Post by Raphmedia »

criddell wrote: post #31

I've often wondered why Canada doesn't have way more entrepreneurs. With a strong social safety net, you can work on your startup and not have to worry about losing your health insurance.

You can also not do anything risky at all and not worry about losing your housing. It's very comfortable to let life carry you around when you know that nothing bad can happen to you.

Pessimism aside, there's not much education about the whole concept of being an entrepreneur. Most people wouldn't even know where to start. Everyone is being pushed to either college or a trade school right after high school. Not once in high school has anyone told us that it was even possible to start your own company or startup. I think the concept is simply out of everyone mind.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#50

Post by thesimon »

londons_explore wrote: post #8

The same is true of most of the rest of the world. Smart computer scientists go to silicon valley unless they're tied down with commitments they can't move. Doesn't bode well for the future of all other countries.

>Smart computer scientists go to silicon valley

Is it really that easy though for the rest of the world? As an european developer AFIAK there a basically two visas

* H-1B: Hard to get the quota as some big companies abuse it for cheap work

* L-1: Requires 1 year of working at the european branch of the company

H-1B seems really difficult to get, is the L1 easier? At the end of my studies at the moment and considered Silicon Valley, but dismissed the idea due to visa issues and the high cost of living.

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