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The rise of the pointless job

theguardian.com

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Re: The rise of the pointless job

#131

Post by nunya213 »

vinceguidry wrote: post #8

Edwardian-era mansions employed whole teams of butlers whose sole job was replacing candles. Not everyone is in a position to make a discernible impact on society. 20% of society will always drive 80% of progress. Think hard how you want the remaining 80% to support their families.

Pretty simple, return to a 90% top tax rate and give the proceeds out as Basic Income. This shit situation we are in is not sustainable, we have levels of inequality in the US not seen since the roaring 20s and we all know how that ended.

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#133

Post by [deleted] »

WC3w6pXxgGd wrote: post #129
iriNjfk993 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The frustrating thing is though: we have plenty of real demand Social work, infrastructure repairs, mental health services. But all the effort coalesces around BIG Corp. and Douche Co. needs first Somehow we’re convinced that Bezos and Koch’s are more important than our neighbors Some looney economists will tell you it’s proven in physics these people are just better Ignoring the history of violent imperialism and co…

All demand is "real demand." Someone wants something and is willing to pay you. That's real.

[deleted]

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#134

Post by colonelpopcorn »

mfoy_ wrote: post #47
tlb wrote: post #19

The goon category is interesting in a future world where AI has replaced most jobs, because it can employ an unlimited number of people. (Goon jobs exist to counterbalance other goon jobs. Militaries are the canonical example.) Most jobs -- teachers, auto workers, plumbers, farmers -- have a natural ceiling on employment related to demand, but goon jobs don't because when one side hires more goons, the other side has…

I die inside. But any suggestion of "mincome" or the like is met with such a harsh reaction... What, effectively, is the difference between goon-bloom and mincome? Is it just that one is too obviously a subsidy?

Because at least in the goon economy you can compete in a hierarchy and be differentiated by status. "I have made X number of lawsuits/wars/security details successful which is more than Billy who only has Y number of successful lawsuits/wars/security details and that's why I should get a bonus and he shouldn't." sounds better than "I have exactly the same amount of income as Billy, but I should have more than he does because I think I'm better than Billy."

Yes, there are other ways to differentiate yourself in a social hierarchy, but finding a new and novel way to live is a lot harder than continuing to live the same way humans have lived for centuries.

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#135

Post by leetcrew »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #86
mfoy_ wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I die inside. But any suggestion of "mincome" or the like is met with such a harsh reaction... What, effectively, is the difference between goon-bloom and mincome? Is it just that one is too obviously a subsidy?

I talk to people about changing the world so work is optional, and people are really attached to the idea that everyone should work all the time. Our world is sufficiently productive (a trend I expect to continue rising) that we could offer a modest life to everyone regardless of how much they work. Or more conservatively, we could build a world where everyone has 8 weeks of vacation a year or could take 6 months off…

> Our world is sufficiently productive (a trend I expect to continue rising) that we could offer a modest life to everyone regardless of how much they work.

i realize that the rest of your post details technological advancements that could create this condition (on an indefinite timeline), but you also seem to be saying that it is already possible today. i often see this sort of claim these days, and i always wonder why this is treated as self evident fact.

in 2015, the PPP adjusted GDP per capita over the entire planet was just under $16k [1]. this is only 125% of the US poverty line for a single person in the same year [2]. even if we could deliver this sum to every person in the world without losing production capacity and with no administrative cost, it hardly seems enough to provide what you mean by a "modest living" to everyone. much closer to mere subsistence in a developed nation.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)...

[2] https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/income-p...

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#136

Post by monocasa »

CountSessine wrote: post #122
monocasa wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or even stuff that has real meaning. Rebuilding our crumbling highway system, laying fiber to the home for a next gen telecoms infrastructure. Just going back to school and getting information job skills. Child care. The list goes on and on without resorting to telephone handset cleaners.

Cleaning trash from streets and parks, filling potholes, fixing sidewalks, pulling weeds, painting over graffiti. These things would would make everyone's days a little nicer. Or even stuff that has real meaning Why do you think that maintaining safe and beautiful cities has no real meaning ? Someone needs to do it. Is this just elitism?

Kind of the opposite. The very idea of paying people to pull weeds on sidewalks screams of elitism when my state doesn't even have full day kindergarten, and some of the worst roads in the country (CO).

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#137

Post by poulsbohemian »

lainga wrote: post #15

I have said this before, but I see some parallels between the modern world and Japan during the early Tokugawa era. Japan had pretty much reached a steady state by the time Tokugawa Iyeyasu came to power in 1600; most of the available land had been cultivated or settled, and, especially after the policies of Toyotomi Hideyoshi, society was locked in a rigid structure without much room for advancement or unrest. As a…

This is very similar to the situation that caused the Swiss to become the mercenaries of Europe. If you were the second son, you weren't going to inherit the farm and thus in a resource-poor country like Switzerland of the Middle Ages, your best choice was to go abroad and find some feudal lord putting together an army. Thus you became a "freelance" and hopefully found riches. I've always thought Machiavelli's dislike of mercenaries was poorly placed, as after all they were simply following the economic incentives.

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#138

Post by lucas_membrane »

romanr wrote: post #29

This is another argument in favor of universal income. Bullshit jobs is one of consequences of progress, low cost goods, food and comfort. With increasing automation it’s going to be get incrementally harder to find bullshit jobs for people. until society understands that not everyone can and have to be employed.

Do-nothing jobs may be a problem, but do they outnumber jobs that exist to support, sustain and inflict a system that is not user-friendly? For example:

How big is the 'security' industry (include 'national security')?

What percent of the workers at the health clinic you visit are there to control, limit, and ration the access to medical care?

Isn't the entire legal system there to sustain the power of the powerful?

Isn't the educational establishment designed to support a hierarchical society in which the highly-educated are few, highly-paid and comfortable, and the rest are not?

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#139

Post by camgunz »

expensivedrone wrote: post #80

I'm a programmer working at a big-tech company. I make ~$350k/year, even though my job could be done equally well by a college intern. I only do ~2 hours of productive work in an average day. My previous jobs were far more interesting and challenging, and I had apparently done extremely well in my interviews. Hence why I got an offer with an extremely good compensation package. However, the team that I go put into, i…

This exact thing happened to me, even though I wasn't paid as well. In order to match the pace of my team I only did work on Fridays. It was depressing how many problems it solved.

Re: The rise of the pointless job

#140

Post by AstralStorm »

modbait wrote: post #100
trophycase wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. The real useless jobs are the 10 people working on animating hair for the next Assassin's Creed game or the CGI for the next Marvel film

Heh. Careful--you may discover that there are jobs far more useless than that.

Half of management jobs? ;)
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