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How salad became a major source of food poisoning in the US

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Re: How salad became a major source of food poisoning in the US

#171

Post by extrapickles »

DanAndersen wrote: post #53
ransom1538 wrote: post #41

Not to be graphic here, but when they are picking lettuce where the portable bathroom is - is important. These guys are pushed for time -- and if the potty is too far away... Also, to deal with this, some farms have movable portable bathrooms on wheels that hover over the produce or in between and follow the group, I am sure they leak. https://toddbigelow.photoshelter.com/image/I0000BLSwooXCRac

This is an important part of the equation, and it's unfortunate that the article doesn't go into sufficient detail about the actual mechanisms by which the infection can happen. If anything, the article's mentions of "people are simply eating more fresh produce these days" and "some contamination can still slip through" foster an attitude of helplessness, as if this is a new normal we need to get used to. Poor living…

Not only that, but farmers need to sterilize sewage before using it as fertilizer. Some will claim they do this, and then pocket the difference.

Re: How salad became a major source of food poisoning in the US

#172

Post by Fomite »

greglindahl wrote: post #170
Fomite wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, educating customers that food poisoning isn't just for meat is how you get people to wash their lettuce and stop drinking raw milk.

I'm all for evidence-based recommendations. Does washing lettuce work for this kind of outbreak?

Would depend on the pathogen in question, how its on the lettuce (and indeed what kind of lettuce), etc. In this particular outbreak, it looks like the CDC's stance is "not really".

But there's a lot of ambient food poisoning that can be prevented by washing lettuce, especially in reducing cross-contamination (the lettuce wasn't contaminated, then got exposed during the cooking prep process, etc.)

Re: How salad became a major source of food poisoning in the US

#173

Post by interfixus »

fma wrote: post #168
dlwdlw wrote: post #104

One interesting thing ive noticed about chinese culture are the heuristics around cleanliness. Vegetables are always washed vigorously and cooked. Salads and sandwiches and other raw-like things are rather disliked. Hands are washed after petting dogs/cats. Slippers always worn around the house. Dislike of carpets. Windows opened every morning for fresh air. Other random stuff. The safety heuristics cant be delegated…

I remember watching TV growing up... Full house or whatever family sitcom. The kids laid the bed with their shoes on, school clothes. My mom comments on how dirty that is. Additionaly it seems like only textbook are Americans using paper towels to open bathroom doors after washing their hands. My mom instilled that at a young age (I'm 36 now). Now it irritates me to see a Dyson hand dryer, and have to open the bathro…

From a European perspective, I so often notice this in American movies. Everybody constantly with shoes in beds an sofas, apparently without a thought. Always grosses me out - it simply would not ever occur to me to put my shoes on furniture.

Re: How salad became a major source of food poisoning in the US

#174

Post by balls187 »

brians wrote: post #43
Alupis wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or... rinse it before you eat it. Just because it's already chopped and in a bag doesn't mean it suddenly doesn't need rinsing. If I recall, not rinsing pre-chopped lettuce was one of the things pointed out to Chipotle after their recent debacle, that may have helped avoid making customers sick.

E coli don't rinse off; they form a biofilm with significant adhesion. You have to cook them to kill them.

However, washing in a water & bleach sanitizing solution will.

You generally don't cook romaine lettuce prior to making a salad.

Re: How salad became a major source of food poisoning in the US

#175

Post by balls187 »

logfromblammo wrote: post #84
rdtsc wrote: post #5

> Leafy vegetables were also the second most common cause of food poisoning-related hospitalizations. I never quite got to like lettuce. I don't know why people like it. It just doesn't have much taste, its leaves are too big, so have to shove them in awkwardly. I'd rather have a salad with chopped ripe tomatoes, onions / chives, cucumbers, cabbage, etc. Even with those, I often wonder if people don't eat more veggie…

Iceberg lettuce is the most pointless waste of time and money in the entire agricultural industry. You are absolutely correct in your assessment of vegetable quality. Everything is bred for transportability, appearance, and shelf life, then flavor and nutrition go out the window. It's exactly the same story as the Red Delicious apple. They were bred to be very red, not at all sour, and to not bruise too easily. So th…

Come to seattle, try the Steak Salad at the Brooklyn. It's an iceberg wedge salad, with steak (hopefully that part was obvious). It's great.

Re: How salad became a major source of food poisoning in the US

#177

Post by _nalply »

I really wonder what's the problem. Either the factory or the restaurant washes the salad for you or you do it yourself.

Here in an European country I can buy pre-washed salad like sliced sugarloaf or lettuce. I toss this directly on my plate and chow away. It's more expensive, but it's convenient and probably safe. I trust the shop to sell me good quality.

Re: How salad became a major source of food poisoning in the US

#178

Post by greglindahl »

Fomite wrote: post #172
greglindahl wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm all for evidence-based recommendations. Does washing lettuce work for this kind of outbreak?

Would depend on the pathogen in question, how its on the lettuce (and indeed what kind of lettuce), etc. In this particular outbreak, it looks like the CDC's stance is "not really". But there's a lot of ambient food poisoning that can be prevented by washing lettuce, especially in reducing cross-contamination (the lettuce wasn't contaminated, then got exposed during the cooking prep process, etc.)

I'd be surprised that washing lettuce prevents the second, but I'm open to evidence that it does.

Re: How salad became a major source of food poisoning in the US

#179

Post by toomanybeersies »

dlwdlw wrote: post #104

One interesting thing ive noticed about chinese culture are the heuristics around cleanliness. Vegetables are always washed vigorously and cooked. Salads and sandwiches and other raw-like things are rather disliked. Hands are washed after petting dogs/cats. Slippers always worn around the house. Dislike of carpets. Windows opened every morning for fresh air. Other random stuff. The safety heuristics cant be delegated…

You forgot to mention the Chinese habit of drinking hot water: https://radiichina.com/the-history-of-drinking-hot-water-in-...

Re: How salad became a major source of food poisoning in the US

#180

Post by toomanybeersies »

interfixus wrote: post #173
fma wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember watching TV growing up... Full house or whatever family sitcom. The kids laid the bed with their shoes on, school clothes. My mom comments on how dirty that is. Additionaly it seems like only textbook are Americans using paper towels to open bathroom doors after washing their hands. My mom instilled that at a young age (I'm 36 now). Now it irritates me to see a Dyson hand dryer, and have to open the bathro…

From a European perspective, I so often notice this in American movies. Everybody constantly with shoes in beds an sofas, apparently without a thought. Always grosses me out - it simply would not ever occur to me to put my shoes on furniture.

Even when I'm completely black out, shitfaced drunk, I still manage to pull my shoes off before falling onto my bed.

The one time I couldn't manage to get my boots off, I just sort of awkwardly slept with my legs hanging over the edge of the bed.

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