Tesla Plunges After a Conference Call • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla Plunges After a Conference Call

#341

Post by jek3939 » Thu, May 03, 2018, 9:31 PM UTC

Avshalom wrote: post #335

jek3939 wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He’s building things other places won’t touch because of the economics Everyone wants to sit and cross t’s and dot i’s because they are trained those matter more than net new If those are the only conversations you have, only doing things you’re sure will be comfortable the economy and society stagnate Economics are not the law of the land or reality. They’re a control mechanism for our output as a thinking, feeling,…

Literally every industry he's involved in has competitors several of which pre-date his entrance in each.

And yet none of them are landing autonomous reusable rocket modules

Of all the 100% electric cars on road, he has two in the top 5

Who else has been pushing battery storage and solar systems that aren’t ugly af and simply made of old parts glued together in parallel?

All these other experts with experience can’t seem to hang with Johnny come lately.

Humans don’t have a history of being petty over others not being the same as them, or worse, outperforming them. We’d never cherry pick facts, and ignore the whole story. Why that would make us no better than animals

Re: Tesla Plunges After a Conference Call

#342

Post by microtherion » Thu, May 03, 2018, 9:41 PM UTC

howaboutnmc wrote: post #66

Musk literally said to an investor "Please sell our stock and don't buy it.". Transcript : https://seekingalpha.com/article/4169027-tesla-tsla-q1-2018-...

Not that I'm a big fan of Musk, but even somebody as mild mannered as Tim Cook has said things like this in the past:

"If you want me to do things only for ROI reasons, you should get out of this stock."

https://www.cultofmac.com/268413/tim-cook-tells-profit-obses...

Re: Tesla Plunges After a Conference Call

#343

Post by twblalock » Thu, May 03, 2018, 9:53 PM UTC

yread wrote: post #262

djrogers wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While Tesla is still the "coolest" brand of car, there are better/cheaper electric cars from many non-Tesla companies already widely available today. No, there are a very small handful of cheaper electric cars that may be subjectively better for some uses but worse for many others. Bolt, i3, Leaf - that's about it for mass-produced cars being bought in any volume, and the manufactureres are taking a bath on them. G…

there is also Prius Prime, Clarity, Volt, Fusion, Ioniq, Outlander and more https://insideevs.com/april-2018-plug-in-electric-vehicle-sa...

And the German brands are getting in on electric in a big way.

Re: Tesla Plunges After a Conference Call

#344

Post by freeopinion » Thu, May 03, 2018, 9:54 PM UTC

xkjkls wrote: post #253

freeopinion wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's interesting. In 2017 Trek manufactured more than 350 different models of bicyle[0]. I'm not sure how that reflects on Tesla. Tesla is not manufacturing bicycles. Nor are they manufacturing Model As in the 1930s automobile market. [0] https://archive.trekbikes.com/us/en/2017

Why should Tesla not be compared to historical parallels?

As I wrote, I think that the comparison is interesting.

I'm just not sure how applicable the comparison is. I think you could compare 1930s Ford vs contemporary automakers to 2018 Tesla vs contemporary EV makers. But comparing 1930s Ford vs horse and buggy to 2018 Tesla vs contemporary automakers seems less apt to me. I think the move from horse and buggy to automobile was very different than the move from ICE vehicles to EV vehicles.

I do think that Ford's early success is incredible. It is astonishing to me that Ford could be selling millions of cars a year in 1930. I'd be interested in other transitions involving such a large expense that happened so quickly. It is interesting to wonder what the equivalent would look like today. But I don't think it is exactly fair to label someone a disappointment if they don't measure up to 1930s Ford.

Re: Tesla Plunges After a Conference Call

#345

Post by peoplewindow » Thu, May 03, 2018, 9:55 PM UTC

xkjkls wrote: post #111

kneel wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what he did is awesome. Who cares what wall street thinks? They're mostly a bunch of leeches passing around paper and overreacting to news articles. Tesla will be fine.

The west coast bias in Hacker News is always shocking. The capital markets exist for a reason, and the people he's mocking on this conference call are the ones that he's going to need to be begging for billions if things don't deliver in Q3 or Q4.

I realise we're not meant to meta-discuss here, but that post you're replying to was flagged and dead, and I vouched for it.

For what it's worth, I agree that the post was ridiculous - Musk's behaviour is dumb and with every week that goes by I expect reality to catch up with him more and more. But I don't think the HN community should be flagging and killing posts for being naive and un-business-like. I struggle to identify what rule was broken there, and (supposedly) west coast "money is free" bias is not a good reason to suppress someone's post from being visible.

Re: Tesla Plunges After a Conference Call

#346

Post by twblalock » Thu, May 03, 2018, 9:57 PM UTC

djrogers wrote: post #145

maxsilver wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The important part of Musk's plan has already succeeded. He made electric cars cool and competitive. If Tesla folds tomorrow, there will still be a large market for electric cars, and multiple other companies serving that. Depending on your needs, that has arguably already happened. While Tesla is still the "coolest" brand of car, there are better/cheaper electric cars from many non-Tesla companies already widely ava…

> While Tesla is still the "coolest" brand of car, there are better/cheaper electric cars from many non-Tesla companies already widely available today. No, there are a very small handful of cheaper electric cars that may be subjectively better for some uses but worse for many others. Bolt, i3, Leaf - that's about it for mass-produced cars being bought in any volume, and the manufactureres are taking a bath on them. G…

> GM is reportedly losing ~$7,500 for each Bolt they sell, how long do you think that would go on if Tesla were to disappear overnight?

I think they would sell more Bolts because without the Model 3 there would be less competition in the Bolt's price range.

Everything I've seen indicates to me that GM is very serious about this, and the German brands are also investing a lot -- the rise of electric cars is coinciding with the decline of diesel, and they are moving their money from one to the other.

Re: Tesla Plunges After a Conference Call

#347

Post by spookthesunset » Thu, May 03, 2018, 10:01 PM UTC

komali2 wrote: post #227

kc10 wrote: post #122

I have been investing a portion of my paycheck every month for the last three years and never sold TSLA. It's bothering me to see so many high profile departures particularly in finance/accounting groups. And yesterday's conference call was a disaster, I see it as dodging valid questions related to current state of the company and answering open ended interesting questions like "When will Tesla launch its own network…

Nice, helping make it cheaper for us :) I for one have been loving the dump, makes it real easy to buy.

Sounds like something a bitcoin user might post...

Re: Tesla Plunges After a Conference Call

#348

Post by DaiPlusPlus » Thu, May 03, 2018, 10:04 PM UTC

agumonkey wrote: post #64

maxsilver wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The important part of Musk's plan has already succeeded. He made electric cars cool and competitive. If Tesla folds tomorrow, there will still be a large market for electric cars, and multiple other companies serving that. Depending on your needs, that has arguably already happened. While Tesla is still the "coolest" brand of car, there are better/cheaper electric cars from many non-Tesla companies already widely ava…

If Tesla folds, how much will they be able to refund to customers ? I guess it's probably written on the deposit contract. Also, I wonder how many would go buy a competitor EV vehicle if their Model 3 doesn't happen. Or will they go ICE ?

I drive a Tesla MX. If Tesla folds and my car gets destroyed I’m tempted to get the Jaguar iPace - it’s the only other “skateboard” BEV currently available. I don’t understand why all the other BEVs go for the “batteries in the trunk”-design when the skateboard model is clearly far superior.

Re: Tesla Plunges After a Conference Call

#349

Post by peoplewindow » Thu, May 03, 2018, 10:05 PM UTC

pm90 wrote: post #298

kc10 wrote: post #122

I have been investing a portion of my paycheck every month for the last three years and never sold TSLA. It's bothering me to see so many high profile departures particularly in finance/accounting groups. And yesterday's conference call was a disaster, I see it as dodging valid questions related to current state of the company and answering open ended interesting questions like "When will Tesla launch its own network…

Picking stocks like that is not considered a good way of investing your money (unless its a small portion which you specifically don't expect to appreciate). I urge you to reconsider your financial planning and perhaps take a look at ETF's.

Maybe not, but it worked out pretty well for him.

Re: Tesla Plunges After a Conference Call

#350

Post by Avshalom » Thu, May 03, 2018, 10:05 PM UTC

jek3939 wrote: post #341

Avshalom wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally every industry he's involved in has competitors several of which pre-date his entrance in each.

And yet none of them are landing autonomous reusable rocket modules Of all the 100% electric cars on road, he has two in the top 5 Who else has been pushing battery storage and solar systems that aren’t ugly af and simply made of old parts glued together in parallel? All these other experts with experience can’t seem to hang with Johnny come lately. Humans don’t have a history of being petty over others not being the…

>>And yet none of them are landing autonomous reusable rocket modules

I watched Armadillo do that in 2005

>Of all the 100% electric cars on road, he has two in the top 5

And neither invented the category nor managed to turn a profit on it

>Who else has been pushing battery storage and solar systems that aren’t ugly af and simply made of old parts glued together in parallel?

For batteries: Panasonic, LG but also literally every battery company and chemistry department in the world.

For solar panels: also every chemistry department and dozens of companies, "China" as a vague term.

And these other experts: they're making money instead of losing it.

But even then this whole post buys into the idea that I some how have to disprove that Elon Musk does these things. He doesn't. Companies that Elon Musk is CEO of do those things.