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Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

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Re: Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

#281

Post by CoolGuySteve »

kendallpark wrote: post #225
alexquez wrote: post #158

I've been in software for 14 years without a computer science degree and carry a chip on my shoulder because I missed out on algorithms and compilers in school. I'm mostly self-taught and have had the opportunity to run a SAAS company for six years now (CodePen). I'm winging it like many other people in our industry. I wish I'd had two things to when I started my career. 1. A right of passage that endorsed my skills…

> Something equivalent to what doctors have when they receive a medical license and become board certified. In the US this requires four 8+ hour exams, spread out over at least seven years of training; each exam requires months of preparation. I have a hard time imagining most programmers would elect to jump through those sorts of hoops just to feel more confident about their jobs. > In retrospect, I would have paid…

Actuaries go through something similar with the SOA exams. It seems to be effective but maybe actuarial science changes more slowly than computer science.

Re: Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

#282

Post by ahtu123 »

alexquez wrote: post #158

I've been in software for 14 years without a computer science degree and carry a chip on my shoulder because I missed out on algorithms and compilers in school. I'm mostly self-taught and have had the opportunity to run a SAAS company for six years now (CodePen). I'm winging it like many other people in our industry. I wish I'd had two things to when I started my career. 1. A right of passage that endorsed my skills…

>I spent years flailing within technology. I learned the wrong things, dove deep into the wrong technology (Java Swing :|) and made obvious mistakes. In retrospect, I would have paid to work for a capable mentor when I started who could have validated my work and guided my efforts.

I think this is inevitable. We're lucky to be living during a time that has been extremely fruitful and revolutionary in programming languages and technologies. I spent many years on Flash and Silverlight but I don't regret it. Most of those skills transfer to other domains easily.

> Mentor-

Yes. Even after 10 years in the industry I feel like I'd love to have someone to poke me in the right direction every now and then.

Re: Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

#283

Post by flyingcircus3 »

mirimir wrote: post #31
flyingcircus3 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've thought about it in the converse. Imagine it's just after Einstein releases his paper explaining the theory of special relativity. Given what we know now about it, and it's ramifications, if Einstein truly understood this idea at anything close to this level we do now, how difficult must it have been to explain the bedrock concepts to those first few people that read it. Simply because it was such a radical idea…

As I recall, his intuitive insights about special relativity were the easy part. But he had to learn the mathematics required to coherently explain them. There must have been many opportunities for confusion and self doubt.

And that's my point. Just imagine how many times he must have heard some variation on the phrase "Newton has been right this whole time. His laws and ideas are too big to fail"

The accumulation of frustration of not being able to elucidate what is obvious to your inner thoughts, to the satisfaction of your peers, precipitates impostor syndrome.

Re: Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

#284

Post by k__ »

rb808 wrote: post #216
k__ wrote: post #152

I have the feeling 90% of people who think they have imposter syndrome are just bad at what they do. Just because you work with people who are even wors doesn't make you good. And just because people who are worse than you act like they not doesn't make you better either.

Sounds like you're pretty arrogant. But you do have a point that by definition 50% of developers are below average. Nearly all developers are below average in at least some part of their professional skills - but that is just normal. For example doctors are the same, but a below average doctor is still qualified and useful. Below average developers ie (half of us) are still useful, doesn't make you an impostor.

Oh no.

For years I had the impression that I'm an impostor.

One day this changed, I found that most people just talk big but are not better than me, but I'm still average, they are just below average.

While yes, I'm still quite useful, I could be a better version of myself.

Re: Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

#285

Post by anarazel »

hardwaresofton wrote: post #270
eeZah7Ux wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely false. Being aware of your need to learn and improve is perfectly normal and healthy. Impostor syndrome hits experts, often when they are at their peak, while beginners rarely experience it, hence the name "syndrome".

Could you restate what was "false"? Are you referring to the article or my comment? I didn't mean to state that being aware of your need to learn and improve isn't normal or healthy -- but you can't learn about everything . You literally don't have the time to learn (and practice, and implement in production) everything as deeply and thoroughly to make you a tried and true expert. You have to cut and run at some poin…

> I don't think widely considered experts experience the impostor syndrome in the same way that I see it explained. Experts on postgres internals don't wonder if they're experts on postgres internals...

Um. I'm an expert on PG internals. And I get impostor syndrome on stuff related to PG internals.

Re: Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

#286

Post by jancsika »

Consistency, a non-didactic intellectual environment, and free speech go a long way.

I'm only speculating that "non-didactic" is key. But let me put it to the test:

Does anybody have an example of a person who swooped into a FLOSS mailing list and posted a long didactic screed that ended up qualitatively changing that FLOSS project for the better?

Re: Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

#287

Post by Bekwnn »

Becoming a confident, capable solo developer. If you're able to make stuff by yourself at decent speed and with good features, you can generally be confident in your own skills based off results.

This doesn't account for interpersonal skills or skills for working in a team, but if your imposter syndrome is about programming skills, just program by yourself.

BUT, important to add is that you should be focused on improving, learning, and experimenting. If you're just staying in your comfort zone you won't be doing much more than busybody work.

Re: Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

#288

Post by always_good »

ahtu123 wrote: post #282
alexquez wrote: post #158

I've been in software for 14 years without a computer science degree and carry a chip on my shoulder because I missed out on algorithms and compilers in school. I'm mostly self-taught and have had the opportunity to run a SAAS company for six years now (CodePen). I'm winging it like many other people in our industry. I wish I'd had two things to when I started my career. 1. A right of passage that endorsed my skills…

>I spent years flailing within technology. I learned the wrong things, dove deep into the wrong technology (Java Swing :|) and made obvious mistakes. In retrospect, I would have paid to work for a capable mentor when I started who could have validated my work and guided my efforts. I think this is inevitable. We're lucky to be living during a time that has been extremely fruitful and revolutionary in programming lang…

Also, using technologies I ended up hating and/or experiencing the limits/downsides of is what compelled me into new, wildly different ones.

I think stagnating is the danger, not learning the "wrong" things. The latter is an important part of gaining perspective.

Re: Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

#289

Post by always_good »

w0m wrote: post #273
linuxlizard wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compilers are a lot of fun; I did compilers in grad school. I regret not taking more EE courses. I would expect we all think about the classes we wanted to take but didn't. :-/

100% agreed. 18 y/o me was an idiot; i'd have done thing significantly differently.

Frankly, had I known I would be where I am today by my own whims, I would've majored in something like philosophy, not taken more compsci courses.

Re: Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

#290

Post by ethagnawl »

jaggederest wrote: post #39
taurath wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every high performer at my workplace states regularly that they wouldn’t be able to pass the entrance exam at the place they currently work. It’s a cruel fucking environment.

In the last couple weeks I've had to decline 18 total hours of "challenges" and "work samples" from 4 different interview processes. I'm not sure at what point it became de rigueur to require applicants to complete on average 4.5 hours of work without pay, but I really, really don't think it's reasonable. I've even offered to show them my current projects in lieu of work samples, and no go. Baffling.

I'm in this situation myself and I'm quickly reaching my breaking point.

In one instance, I submitted an "exercise", which I spent ~six hours on, one week ago and haven't heard _anything_ back -- not even a confirmation that the submission was successful. I had been on the fence about following up, but fuck that, I'm going to do it right now. Thanks for the nudge. ;)

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