As soon as you admit to yourself that all vehicles must have certain features that "overlap" (such as the requirement of having a windshield on the front of the vehicle so the driver can view the road in front of them, aerodynamic properties), you quickly realize those 2 pictures at the top of the article look nothing alike. All press is good press? I get the feeling if that was the goal here it's going to backfire badly for Nikola Motors.
Tesla is hit by $2B patent troll case from Nikola Motors
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Re: Tesla is hit by $2B patent troll case from Nikola Motors
#12[deleted]
Re: Tesla is hit by $2B patent troll case from Nikola Motors
#13Earlier quoted context omitted.
The article includes this image, which shows all three patented elements, along with a bunch of 1980s/90s hair and typography: https://electrek.files.wordpress.com/2018/05/7d9a939bf5c3281... Seems to clearly indicate these patents should be invalidated.
That's true, but that's not the definition of a "patent troll". Patent trolls very specifically make all of their money with patent lawsuits and settlements. Nikola Motors is a real company making real products, however misguided this lawsuit is.
Wikipedia defines it as, “In international law and business, patent trolling or patent hoarding is a categorical or pejorative term applied to a person or company that attempts to enforce patent rights against accused infringers far beyond the patent's actual value or contribution to the prior art....”
It goes on to say that patent trolls often don’t make products using the patents, but this is not always the case.
That definition seems a lot better than one limited to a non-practicing entity.
Re: Tesla is hit by $2B patent troll case from Nikola Motors
#14Musk's comments from yesterday's earnings call:
"We have a slight laughable lawsuit recently from some company ironically called Nikola. Nikola is suing Tesla. That's hilarious. Fate loves irony. But they're suing us because the way the trucks look, which is absurd. Nobody's buying a Semi truck because the way it looks, or because going to wraparound windshield or whatever. Please."
https://seekingalpha.com/article/4169027-tesla-tsla-q1-2018-...
Re: Tesla is hit by $2B patent troll case from Nikola Motors
#15The author here appears to be confusing design patents with regular patents. A design patent covers the specific appearance of a product, functioning more like a trademark than a patent for an invention. The relevant matters here would be whether the appearance is similar enough to cause confusion, not whether anyone has ever used a wrap windshield before.
That being said, I do agree that they look nothing alike, so I would not expect this to be a very strong suit.
Re: Tesla is hit by $2B patent troll case from Nikola Motors
#16How is this a patent troll? Nikola isn’t a non-practicing entity. They have their own competing product. Was the Apple-Samsung patent litigation “patent trolling?”
It doesn't matter if they are a practicing entity or not: they are still clearly using their patents in a trolling fashion. After all: (1) who had ever heard of 'Nikola' before this, (2) these patents are too dumb for words, (3) good luck showing $2B in damages and (if any) and (4) if you really believe that Nikola is now associated with Tesla because of battery fires then you're silly. These people are patent trolls pure and simple, that they do other stuff besides doesn't really matter.
Oh, and these patents shouldn't have been granted in the first place, they are design patents, and the design is right along the lines of other futuristic looking trucks that still look like trucks.
Re: Tesla is hit by $2B patent troll case from Nikola Motors
#17How is this a patent troll? Nikola isn’t a non-practicing entity. They have their own competing product. Was the Apple-Samsung patent litigation “patent trolling?”
Look at the pictures. They look about as similar as a Ford does to a Dodge. The grill, headlamps, body panels, windshield, hell, even the length of the truck is completely different between the two trucks. A truck is a truck, you can't patent the form factor of a truck.
> you can't patent the form factor of a truck
Is there a specific part of design patent law you're referring to? A special case for trucks?
Re: Tesla is hit by $2B patent troll case from Nikola Motors
#18How is this a patent troll? Nikola isn’t a non-practicing entity. They have their own competing product. Was the Apple-Samsung patent litigation “patent trolling?”
Look at the pictures. They look about as similar as a Ford does to a Dodge. The grill, headlamps, body panels, windshield, hell, even the length of the truck is completely different between the two trucks. A truck is a truck, you can't patent the form factor of a truck.
You can actually. It's called a design patent. It's different than a utility patent because it's supposed to be non-functional. I haven't looked at the patents to see if they're design or utility patents though.
Re: Tesla is hit by $2B patent troll case from Nikola Motors
#19How is this a patent troll? Nikola isn’t a non-practicing entity. They have their own competing product. Was the Apple-Samsung patent litigation “patent trolling?”
I'm with you I don't understand why people are so quick to call a company a "patent troll" diluting the meaning.
That's what I thought, but towards the end of the article, the author explains himself. With supporting research which I appreciated:
> But now I cannot get behind them at all after such a clear case of patent trolling. > [...] > A wrap windshield on a truck? That has been around for years before Nikola Motors or Tesla Semi: > [picture of MAN truck with similar design] > Those types of concepts, like a mid-entry door and wrap windshield, *have been around for decades really and the fact that Nikola would patent them and sue anyone who decides to use similar ideas sounds just like patent trolling to me. > [picture that looks like its from the 90s showing a truck with wrapped windshield]
Re: Tesla is hit by $2B patent troll case from Nikola Motors
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
Look at the pictures. They look about as similar as a Ford does to a Dodge. The grill, headlamps, body panels, windshield, hell, even the length of the truck is completely different between the two trucks. A truck is a truck, you can't patent the form factor of a truck.
You can actually. It's called a design patent. It's different than a utility patent because it's supposed to be non-functional. I haven't looked at the patents to see if they're design or utility patents though.
You could have read the article, though… The third paragraph is:
> In the complaint, Nikola alleges that Tesla’s electric truck design infringes on a series of 3 specific design patents that they recently obtained for the design of a few features of their Nikola One truck unveiled in 2016 – a year before Tesla unveiled its own electric truck.