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Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

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Re: Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

#221

Post by optimuspaul »

jkereako wrote: post #197
ams6110 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a degree but honestly can't say I've ever really used anything from algorithms or compilers courses on the job. Nobody (meaning, very few people doing mainstream startup/SaaS development) writes fundamental algorithms, you use libraries and classes from the language you're working in. Most people don't work in compiled languages anymore, and if they do, they don't write their own compilers. Maybe understanding…

> I have a degree but honestly can't say I've ever really used anything from algorithms or compilers courses on the job. I've found knowledge of the fundamentals (compilers, operating systems, algorithms, etc.) useful in interviews and arguments. That's about it.

I really want to change that. It's a waste of time to be asking people about those things in interviews for application development (and similar) positions. There is a whole other set of skills we should be asking that we don't. Problem solving, distributed systems, failure states, etc. Things that understanding algorithms, compilers, and operating systems have no bearing on. It doesn't hurt to know those things but it is essentially wasted time/space.

Re: Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

#222

Post by optimuspaul »

jkereako wrote: post #204
alexquez wrote: post #158

I've been in software for 14 years without a computer science degree and carry a chip on my shoulder because I missed out on algorithms and compilers in school. I'm mostly self-taught and have had the opportunity to run a SAAS company for six years now (CodePen). I'm winging it like many other people in our industry. I wish I'd had two things to when I started my career. 1. A right of passage that endorsed my skills…

Even folks with degrees in CS are still self-taught, they just got a guided head-start. All intellectual fields require constant study and practice.

Life-long learning, that is one of the key attributes that I look for when interviewing folks.

Re: Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

#223

Post by optimuspaul »

jameshart wrote: post #205
kohanz wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I think you make excellent points, I believe that impostor syndrome is actually quite common, if not moreso, amongst the highly educated.

I’m sure you meant well, but this response really comes across as saying “dont worry, you don’t have imposter syndrome - you’re too poorly educated for that. You’re actually an imposter.” The point is imposter syndrome affects people who are high achievers but don’t feel they earned the respect that gives them. In tech, that high achievement status can be orthogonal to the level of formal education, so regardless of…

> “dont worry, you don’t have imposter syndrome - you’re too poorly educated for that. You’re actually an imposter.”

I didn't get that at all when I read that.

Re: Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

#224

Post by base698 »

jaggederest wrote: post #39
taurath wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every high performer at my workplace states regularly that they wouldn’t be able to pass the entrance exam at the place they currently work. It’s a cruel fucking environment.

In the last couple weeks I've had to decline 18 total hours of "challenges" and "work samples" from 4 different interview processes. I'm not sure at what point it became de rigueur to require applicants to complete on average 4.5 hours of work without pay, but I really, really don't think it's reasonable. I've even offered to show them my current projects in lieu of work samples, and no go. Baffling.

I think it's because of the blowback on whiteboarding interviews. Damned if you do, damned it you don't.

Re: Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

#225

Post by kendallpark »

alexquez wrote: post #158

I've been in software for 14 years without a computer science degree and carry a chip on my shoulder because I missed out on algorithms and compilers in school. I'm mostly self-taught and have had the opportunity to run a SAAS company for six years now (CodePen). I'm winging it like many other people in our industry. I wish I'd had two things to when I started my career. 1. A right of passage that endorsed my skills…

> Something equivalent to what doctors have when they receive a medical license and become board certified.

In the US this requires four 8+ hour exams, spread out over at least seven years of training; each exam requires months of preparation. I have a hard time imagining most programmers would elect to jump through those sorts of hoops just to feel more confident about their jobs.

> In retrospect, I would have paid to work for a capable mentor when I started who could have validated my work and guided my efforts.

I think this idea definitely has some merit. I was very fortunate that my first big job after getting my CS degree was on a very agile team that leaned toward the bleeding edge. I wonder if there could be a way for programmers to rate the development environment of certain companies.

Re: Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

#226

Post by wolfgke »

alexquez wrote: post #158

I've been in software for 14 years without a computer science degree and carry a chip on my shoulder because I missed out on algorithms and compilers in school. I'm mostly self-taught and have had the opportunity to run a SAAS company for six years now (CodePen). I'm winging it like many other people in our industry. I wish I'd had two things to when I started my career. 1. A right of passage that endorsed my skills…

> After five years on the job, no one cares about your cute degree but the 21-year-old version of me who knew nothing and was a tiny bit terrified of being found incompetent cared.

If you feel that you know nothing, this is good, since then you know that you have a lot to learn, which you will hopefully do then. I thus consider it as dangerous if one does not feel dumb all the time.

> I spent years flailing within technology. I learned the wrong things, dove deep into the wrong technology (Java Swing :|) and made obvious mistakes.

Also the mentor will just tell you about what is trendy to him/her at the time. So be honest: You rather look for a person to pass the responsibility on for the things that you did wrong.

Re: Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

#227

Post by castlecrasher2 »

darkerside wrote: post #186
philbarr wrote: post #122

Does anyone else get that feeling like, "am I the only one who sees what a load of shit this is?" I don't think it's imposter syndrome per se, but it's related. It's like, "I'm the only one who can see the truth." An example: years ago my old crooked boss brought everyone in to his huge office to tell us why he couldn't afford to give people the pay rise they'd been asking for. With a straight face and with his Aston…

All I've got is your word that he's crooked. There are totally reasonable ways that people can have a fancy looking Aston Martin and be dead broke at the same time (used cars, financing, underwater on loan, etc). Estimates are guesses by nature, and it's not surprising you know nothing about them. If you hate your job that much, what are you doing about it? It's weird to see the top post on HN be an immature and empa…

>It's weird to see the top post on HN be an immature and empathy-barren rant that is completely irrelevant to the article.

That sense of entitlement is endemic across the internet, honestly.

Re: Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

#229

Post by sus_007 »

cyberferret wrote: post #41

My semi-cynical, 35+ years in the industry advice? Avoid blogs, forums, podcasts, social media pages, news sites that only focus on the 1% of startups that make it 'big' seemingly overnight. Go out and talk to fellow entrepreneurs, hackers, company founders and people in the industry, and you will quickly find out that everyone , and I mean EVERYONE goes through a heartless grind and struggle to get things done or to…

I totally agree with your statement, but how can one compensate for the fear of missing out of new technologies, interesting discussions among interesting people sharing their insights to the problem in hand, like you're doing with us at the moment. That's the only reason I check Hacker News, or some Subreddits multiple times a day, so that I won't miss that one non-upvoted post which could have proven significant to me, whether personally or educationally.

Re: Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

#230

Post by monsieurbanana »

wolfgke wrote: post #218
groby_b wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since I happened to know a boss who had a shiny new car while not being able to give out huge raises, let me tell you the other side of the story: That company had been broken in to, with extremely valuable equipment stolen. The insurance company promptly paid for it, replacements were bought - all's well in the world, right? Not quite. It turns out, due to tax law quirks, the new equipment's cost as a tax deduction…

> Step two after learning to keep your mouth shut: Learning that the situation is always more complex than you can see from the outside. Rather step two that the CEO should have done: Explain these quirks of the taxation laws, so that any rational person has to come to the same logical conclusion based on the evidence.

A step that the CEO certainly would have done, if it happened, which it most probably didn't.

I'm not saying it couldn't happen, or that it has never happened, just that you'll need some serious arguments to convainc me it's more probable than the CEO being simply a crook.

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