The Unemployment Rate in Every Region of Europe • Hacker News Board

Re: The Unemployment Rate in Every Region of Europe

#81

Post by pbhjpbhj » Thu, May 03, 2018, 1:03 PM UTC

jdietrich wrote: post #79

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me minimum wage is great - but why (in UK) does a 24 year old need less than a 25 year old, or indeed deserve less? Why do "apprentices" deserve less than is considered the minimum living wage. Even minimum wage has been corrupted. UBI, or something equally revolutionary, I think will be needed without a major population collapse.

One of the main risks of a minimum wage is suppressing the employment rate of less-skilled, less-experienced workers. If the minimum wage is too high, it's uneconomic to take on staff who don't deliver enough value for the business. The reduced rates for young people and apprentices exist to reduce this stifling effect - without them, you'd make it uneconomic for businesses to take a chance on new employees who might…

>without them, you'd make it uneconomic

Not uneconomic, but it would impact then in a way that might require reducing profits or flattening wage profiles.

That's not contrary to good management it's contrary to greed.

Re: The Unemployment Rate in Every Region of Europe

#82

Post by cleansy » Thu, May 03, 2018, 1:03 PM UTC

netrus wrote: post #7

Luc wrote: post #2

Meh blog post. Here's the interactive chart at Eurostat: http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/cache/RCI/#?vis=nuts2.labourmar...

German perspective: Wow, what a dramatic shift in Eastern Germany! Maybe it is just a general upwards trend in Germany with little room for improvement in Southern Germany, but it might also be the beginning of the end of Eastern Germany's under performance. I will certainly investigate further.

I am from Brandenburg originally and am very surprised that Berlins unemployment rate is higher than Brandenburg's?! I checked statista[1][2] and indeed, it is. When I grew up it was around 18%.

1: https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/2519/umfrage/... 2: https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/762452/umfrag...

Re: The Unemployment Rate in Every Region of Europe

#83

Post by nkkollaw » Thu, May 03, 2018, 1:04 PM UTC

crispyporkbites wrote: post #18

nkkollaw wrote: post #5

I'd like to add that actual figures for Italy are hard to estimate correctly. Many, many people work under the table, very often pretending that they're still out of work to keep getting the unemployment check.

Is that anecdotal or fact? How many is many, many people?

Well, by "under the table" I mean that those workers are unknown to the government, so I don't think there is a way to know for sure. The government's estimates are at ~15%. From my experience, most workers in agriculture and food & beverages work under the table.

It's a very complicated subject--which I can talk about if you're interested--but I don't know if you can really blame them. Taxes in Italy are almost 50%. For years I've paid 45% in taxes and 1200/yr. for my accountant. In Poland, I only pay 19% for taxes and 40/mo. for my accountant, and services to citizens and public safety are about 1000 times better than Italy. It just feels wrong to pay taxes in Italy: you don't have any money left, and whenever you need something from the government it's a nightmare and done so badly that you feel you're in a third-world country.

Re: The Unemployment Rate in Every Region of Europe

#84

Post by solarkraft » Thu, May 03, 2018, 1:05 PM UTC

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #75

maephisto wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The South America / islands and included because they are territories belonging to a EU country (France, Spain, Portugal). Turkey is in there because it's a candidate country.

Is it still? It's a human rights nightmare and I don't think the EU should have anything to do with Turkey while Erdogan is still in power.

It's not really a question anymore for the next few years (or decades). Official status is just a political tool by now and even then this classification may lag behind.

Re: The Unemployment Rate in Every Region of Europe

#85

Post by k__ » Thu, May 03, 2018, 1:07 PM UTC

jdietrich wrote: post #79

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me minimum wage is great - but why (in UK) does a 24 year old need less than a 25 year old, or indeed deserve less? Why do "apprentices" deserve less than is considered the minimum living wage. Even minimum wage has been corrupted. UBI, or something equally revolutionary, I think will be needed without a major population collapse.

One of the main risks of a minimum wage is suppressing the employment rate of less-skilled, less-experienced workers. If the minimum wage is too high, it's uneconomic to take on staff who don't deliver enough value for the business. The reduced rates for young people and apprentices exist to reduce this stifling effect - without them, you'd make it uneconomic for businesses to take a chance on new employees who might…

> it's uneconomic to take on staff who don't deliver enough value

This was the fear people had.

Somehow most people who were paid less that minimum wage delivered enough value.

Only a few companies needed to stop their service.

Re: The Unemployment Rate in Every Region of Europe

#86

Post by ForRealsies » Thu, May 03, 2018, 1:11 PM UTC

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #67

k__ wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm more of an UBI guy. The whole minimum-wage stuff didn't seem like a good idea to me. But since its conception I only read good things about it.

To me minimum wage is great - but why (in UK) does a 24 year old need less than a 25 year old, or indeed deserve less? Why do "apprentices" deserve less than is considered the minimum living wage. Even minimum wage has been corrupted. UBI, or something equally revolutionary, I think will be needed without a major population collapse.

>UBI, or something equally revolutionary, I think will be needed without a major population collapse.

UBI is only feasible with major population collapse.

Re: The Unemployment Rate in Every Region of Europe

#87

Post by DanBC » Thu, May 03, 2018, 1:11 PM UTC

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #63

DanBC wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

JSA is being replaced by universal credit. People on UC need to spend 35 hours per week on their job search, and they need to be able to demonstrate this. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/universal-credit-... > You should think of jobseeking as a full-time job. You will be expected to look or prepare for work for 35 hours a week, depending on your circumstances. This requirement is robustly enforced. I ment…

Dishonest unemployed people can get away with doing virtually nothing (or doing undisclosed work), most of the time, no?

If you don't get a job you're expected to take part in the Work Programme so no, people can't get away with doing nothing.

It's very hard to do undisclosed work because cash in hand work has been made much harder to get.

It's pretty hard to get away with doing nothing because your jobsearch is now online. You use DWP websites to record all your job searching. People may get away with it for a few weeks, but they're not going to get away with it for long.

We've heard a lot about the Hostile Environment. People think it just applies to Windrush, or maybe only to immigration. That's incorrect. It's a wide ranging policy and it fully applies to all benefits. That's why so many decisions are being overturned at first tier tribunal - the quality of decision making is piss poor and it's likely some of that is a deliberate choice.

Re: The Unemployment Rate in Every Region of Europe

#88

Post by MLR » Thu, May 03, 2018, 1:11 PM UTC

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #67

k__ wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm more of an UBI guy. The whole minimum-wage stuff didn't seem like a good idea to me. But since its conception I only read good things about it.

To me minimum wage is great - but why (in UK) does a 24 year old need less than a 25 year old, or indeed deserve less? Why do "apprentices" deserve less than is considered the minimum living wage. Even minimum wage has been corrupted. UBI, or something equally revolutionary, I think will be needed without a major population collapse.

It's to do with employment rates and avoiding financial damage to small/low margin businesses, there's a commission of some kind that tries to work out the maximum viable level.

Re: The Unemployment Rate in Every Region of Europe

#89

Post by jdietrich » Thu, May 03, 2018, 1:12 PM UTC

BenoitEssiambre wrote: post #59

There are groups of people that, through no fault of their own, are less productive. Maybe they are young and inexperienced just out of school, maybe they are older and have lower stamina, maybe they are rooted in a region where it is costlier and more difficult for businesses to operate, maybe they are a visible minority and are made less efficient by other people’s discriminatory treatment, maybe they have a diffic…

>This means that when central banks tighten too much, some workers may be afflicted moderately by a more difficult labor market but whole segments of the less productive and more vulnerable, may be completely cutoff from having a job.

Europe has been running rock-bottom interest rates since the 2008 crash. The ECB are charging 0% on MRO lending and offering -0.4% on deposits. The BoE have just increased rates from 0.25% to 0.5% in late 2017 due to rising inflation. Both banks have spent most of the last decade flooding the markets with money through QE.

It's hard to see what more they could do.

Re: The Unemployment Rate in Every Region of Europe

#90

Post by pbhjpbhj » Thu, May 03, 2018, 1:13 PM UTC

gpvos wrote: post #68

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dishonest unemployed people can get away with doing virtually nothing (or doing undisclosed work), most of the time, no?

Citation needed. A small minority maybe. Dishonesty can be hard work.

I'm not saying it's widespread, nor necessarily that easy (I don't know) but every few weeks I'm looking at our local news online and there's a story of someone claiming jobseekers, housing benefit, disability or attendance allowances, and they're working (and paying taxes it seems, so it should have been easy to catch them).

5s Google - http://www.4ni.co.uk/northern-ireland-news/243195/other-news..., some guy claiming whilst working.

Assuming not all cases are found - and stories I've seen in the past have been of people caught after well over a year of false claims - then it seems perfectly doable for those who are dishonest (through necessity or otherwise).