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Kill Whitey- It’s the right thing to do.

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Re: Kill Whitey- It’s the right thing to do.

#21

Post by iuyhgtfvgbhjn »

Tyr42 wrote: post #17
iuyhgtfvgbhjn wrote: post #10

That explains the behavior of all the drivers as I cycle to work. They are all moral philosophers and believe that by killing me they provide donor organs to save 6 others. Maybe I need a cycling top that says "I don't carry a donor card"

I remember watching a documentary where they found that drivers are much more likely to cut off cyclists wearing helmets than those without helmets. They also measured things like average distance between car and bike when passing. If people see you not wearing a helmet they assume that you are unsafe and will stay further away from you.

The research was conducted by a prof at my old school.

He also discovered that drivers gave a female cyclist much more space - although since he did the experiment himself in a blonde wig he did consider that perhaps they just give unconvincing transvestites more room !

Re: Kill Whitey- It’s the right thing to do.

#22

Post by lhorie »

jdrock wrote: post #4

I call BS on the test. Interesting. You state that Casey Jones should divert the train, yet this will cause the death of the person trapped on the railway siding. This seems to be inconsistent with your belief that it is always wrong to cause another person's death. It is somewhat perplexing that you responded this way, since you do not believe that this course of action is necessiated by any general moral requiremen…

>> It's simply the better of two options.

What if it's pushing a philanthropist onto the rails to save 5 serial killers?

I'm not entirely sure what's the goal of this exercise. I'd imagine that in real life, regardless of who's getting killed, most people would simply let things run their courses since inaction is generally less risky than action.

Then, if confronted, I'd guess most people would probably come up with a justification that was favorable to them (i.e. thay would get them out of trouble's way), not follow some strict ethic model.

Re: Kill Whitey- It’s the right thing to do.

#23

Post by iuyhgtfvgbhjn »

rdouble wrote: post #13
iuyhgtfvgbhjn wrote: post #10

That explains the behavior of all the drivers as I cycle to work. They are all moral philosophers and believe that by killing me they provide donor organs to save 6 others. Maybe I need a cycling top that says "I don't carry a donor card"

This version of the "trolley" thought experiment is explored in the book I mentioned in a previous post. It turns out people will not choose to steer a trolley of people needing organ replacements into a healthy potential organ donor. Thus, most people really aren't utilitarians, even if they claim to be. Unfortunately, one of the chemical processes in the brain reverses this attitude when someone prone to road rage…

We used to use the "would you kill a jogger for his organs" question on smug medical student applicants - those who wanted to be doctors "to help people".

Another good question is ask them why they don't become civil engineers - good drains save a lot more people than doctors ever did.

Re: Kill Whitey- It’s the right thing to do.

#24

Post by ergo98 »

lukev wrote: post #2

Key quote from the article (IMHO): "The idea is not that people are or are not utilitarian; it’s that they will cite being utilitarian when it behooves them. People are aren’t using these principles and then applying them. They arrive at a judgement and seek a principle."

Bring up a discussion on piracy, DRM, intellectual rights, etc, and watch this play out in a very passionate way.

Re: Kill Whitey- It’s the right thing to do.

#25

Post by Periodic »

raganwald wrote: post #20
lukev wrote: post #2

Key quote from the article (IMHO): "The idea is not that people are or are not utilitarian; it’s that they will cite being utilitarian when it behooves them. People are aren’t using these principles and then applying them. They arrive at a judgement and seek a principle."

Of course I cannot speak for people on HN, but this has been my anecdotal experience. People cite all sort sof utilitarian justifications for believing in the absolute power of free markets, or of democracy, or of paying lower taxes, or whatever. I'm certainly representative. I like having the government provide my children's health care and enjoy living in a safe city. What a shocking surprise, I advocate those prin…

From looking at the voting habits of California residents, it looks to me like people will generally vote for anything that gives them something without much cost, and vote against anything that looks like an increased cost without a visible benefit. I wouldn't be surprised if people are making these votes, then trying to fit them to whatever political philosophy they have.

Re: Kill Whitey- It’s the right thing to do.

#26

Post by notahacker »

autarch wrote: post #8

Another flaw in this sort of study is that there's an enormous disconnect between what we say we would do, and what we would actually do. I might say "yes, I would push Chip/Tyrone over the rail", because I really do believe that's the best thing to do. But if I were actually faced with that dilemma and had to murder someone, could I do it?

It doesn't account for the likelihood that my actions fail to save anyone and simply increase the death toll either, which would be a paralysing fear for many people in real life.

This particular scenario seems an odd one because I simply can't conceive a situation in which I could ever be confident a falling fat man would stop a moving train. My instinct would surely be to trust everything I'd previously learned about the laws of physics.

Re: Kill Whitey- It’s the right thing to do.

#27

Post by defen »

sprout wrote: post #15

I find the bit about Iraqis vs. Americans a bit superficial. As a liberal, I would consider collateral damage less of a problem when Americans die because all Americans are responsible for the present situation in Iraq, while most Iraqis are innocent bystanders. I view this as utilitarian: if people who start wars have a greater chance of death than people who don't start wars, this should in theory decrease the inci…

If you're going to play the odds and assume the blueblood is a "parasite", shouldn't you also assume that the lower-class black man is not present to support his family anyway?

Re: Kill Whitey- It’s the right thing to do.

#28

Post by Periodic »

sprout wrote: post #15

I find the bit about Iraqis vs. Americans a bit superficial. As a liberal, I would consider collateral damage less of a problem when Americans die because all Americans are responsible for the present situation in Iraq, while most Iraqis are innocent bystanders. I view this as utilitarian: if people who start wars have a greater chance of death than people who don't start wars, this should in theory decrease the inci…

> So the question really becomes: kill one man, or kill one man and ruin his family's chance at a decent life.

In the article they said that conservatives favored killing the "black" man while liberals favored killing the "white" man. It isn't as clear as the background simply providing more data. The internal stereotype and moral values of the subject are also influencing it. It would be a terrible study if they had just lumped everyone into one big pool. It became interesting when they gathered other information about the subjects and then found correlations with their behavior.

Thus, it really isn't about what the common stereotypes are, but rather how two groups can perceive the same situation differently enough to make different decisions.

Re: Kill Whitey- It’s the right thing to do.

#29

Post by marcinw »

autarch wrote: post #8

Another flaw in this sort of study is that there's an enormous disconnect between what we say we would do, and what we would actually do. I might say "yes, I would push Chip/Tyrone over the rail", because I really do believe that's the best thing to do. But if I were actually faced with that dilemma and had to murder someone, could I do it?

Why not just ask Chip or Tyrone whether they feel their lives are worth losing to save a hundred others?

Re: Kill Whitey- It’s the right thing to do.

#30

Post by dusklight »

I think it's important to point out that the names chosen are not only denotations of race, they are denotations of class. Maybe instead of the liberals feeling better about killing the white guy to save the black guys, they feel better about killing the rich guy to save the poor guys.

There is a tendency to conflate class issues with race issues in America, and I think that really muddles the debate somewhat.

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