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Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

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Re: Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

#41

Post by cyberferret »

My semi-cynical, 35+ years in the industry advice? Avoid blogs, forums, podcasts, social media pages, news sites that only focus on the 1% of startups that make it 'big' seemingly overnight.

Go out and talk to fellow entrepreneurs, hackers, company founders and people in the industry, and you will quickly find out that everyone, and I mean EVERYONE goes through a heartless grind and struggle to get things done or to make a difference. Connect with these people on a far deeper level than just making money or comparing tech stacks and identify what it is that gets them out of bed each morning with a spring in their step. If it is the same reasons that get YOU out of bed every morning, then sign them up as your support buddy so you can measure (and they can help you measure) the real metric that makes you tick. No room for impostor syndrome in this scenario at all.

Re: Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

#42

Post by maxxxxx »

calebio wrote: post #40
jaggederest wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the last couple weeks I've had to decline 18 total hours of "challenges" and "work samples" from 4 different interview processes. I'm not sure at what point it became de rigueur to require applicants to complete on average 4.5 hours of work without pay, but I really, really don't think it's reasonable. I've even offered to show them my current projects in lieu of work samples, and no go. Baffling.

I've been pondering my thoughts on this, and I'm curious what you think. Would you prefer Phone Screen +: A) FANG/Valley style interviews multiple rounds of leetcode algorithm/data structure style questions and some whiteboard design/architecture. B) Pair Programming. A few rounds of pairing on a problems to see actual code. Maybe some lightweight whiteboard design/architecture. C) Take home challenge/assignment that…

I would go for pair programming.

Re: Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

#43

Post by scottmcf »

calebio wrote: post #40
jaggederest wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the last couple weeks I've had to decline 18 total hours of "challenges" and "work samples" from 4 different interview processes. I'm not sure at what point it became de rigueur to require applicants to complete on average 4.5 hours of work without pay, but I really, really don't think it's reasonable. I've even offered to show them my current projects in lieu of work samples, and no go. Baffling.

I've been pondering my thoughts on this, and I'm curious what you think. Would you prefer Phone Screen +: A) FANG/Valley style interviews multiple rounds of leetcode algorithm/data structure style questions and some whiteboard design/architecture. B) Pair Programming. A few rounds of pairing on a problems to see actual code. Maybe some lightweight whiteboard design/architecture. C) Take home challenge/assignment that…

If you're asking for C with 4.5 hours of work (as per example above) that's fine if you're paying for their time.

Cheaper than a bad hire, stops you missing out on good hires who think "fuck that".

Re: Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

#44

Post by mkhpalm »

8ytecoder wrote: post #24
ztjio wrote: post #8

Funny story, in 15 years of professional software development I never experienced the sense of imposter syndrome until very recently when I decided after 12 years at one employer (on many satisfying projects) I needed to consider expanding my employment options. AKA I started looking for a new job. Once I got a whiff of the putrid state of hiring in our industry today holy hell... Sure, I’ve been successful at this f…

I'm going through it. My past self from 12 years ago would have cleared every one of those interviews. I don't believe for one second that that former self was a better Engineer. But it's hard to not feel anxious.

I've learned to politely walk away whenever I sense an interview circus starting up.

Re: Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

#45

Post by kabouseng »

maxxxxx wrote: post #42
calebio wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been pondering my thoughts on this, and I'm curious what you think. Would you prefer Phone Screen +: A) FANG/Valley style interviews multiple rounds of leetcode algorithm/data structure style questions and some whiteboard design/architecture. B) Pair Programming. A few rounds of pairing on a problems to see actual code. Maybe some lightweight whiteboard design/architecture. C) Take home challenge/assignment that…

I would go for pair programming.

The danger with pair programming is you easily get a partner who sees the activity as a competitive exercise / dick measuring activity* , and some engineers find enjoyment in proving to everyone else (including new hires) their superiority.

*excuse my language, but it is the most accurate description I could come up with.

Re: Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

#46

Post by toomanybeersies »

jaggederest wrote: post #39
taurath wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every high performer at my workplace states regularly that they wouldn’t be able to pass the entrance exam at the place they currently work. It’s a cruel fucking environment.

In the last couple weeks I've had to decline 18 total hours of "challenges" and "work samples" from 4 different interview processes. I'm not sure at what point it became de rigueur to require applicants to complete on average 4.5 hours of work without pay, but I really, really don't think it's reasonable. I've even offered to show them my current projects in lieu of work samples, and no go. Baffling.

On the contrary, when I was last looking for a job, I hit a snag in that a company wanted examples of current projects, but I had none because I don't really program outside of work (I have other hobbies).

I wish I could add more to my anecdote, like how I solved this problem, but I avoided it entirely by taking a job offer from a different company the next day.

Re: Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

#47

Post by dirktheman »

jaggederest wrote: post #39
taurath wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every high performer at my workplace states regularly that they wouldn’t be able to pass the entrance exam at the place they currently work. It’s a cruel fucking environment.

In the last couple weeks I've had to decline 18 total hours of "challenges" and "work samples" from 4 different interview processes. I'm not sure at what point it became de rigueur to require applicants to complete on average 4.5 hours of work without pay, but I really, really don't think it's reasonable. I've even offered to show them my current projects in lieu of work samples, and no go. Baffling.

I really don't get this interview process, and why it's so ubiquitous. I wouldn't care if an interviewee could pass a whiteboard fizzbuzz test if he/she provided some samples of projects they've done. That would tell me much more about your proficiency and methods.

I'd be much more interested in finding out if we would have a cultural fit. You can teach certain skills, but if your personality doesn't fit the culture it's going to be a bad experience for everybody.

Re: Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

#48

Post by arthur_pryor »

kabouseng wrote: post #45
maxxxxx wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would go for pair programming.

The danger with pair programming is you easily get a partner who sees the activity as a competitive exercise / dick measuring activity* , and some engineers find enjoyment in proving to everyone else (including new hires) their superiority. *excuse my language, but it is the most accurate description I could come up with.

i'd posit that if an employer can't find a decent pool of current employees to potentially pair program with an interviewee, they have deeper problems than getting that upcoming interview right, and need to correct for some past hiring mistakes ASAP.

i would definitely be looking for employment elsewhere if i my co-workers were so unpleasant that i thought they'd turn every pairing session into a pissing contest (and i say that as someone who generally prefers solo programming as far as immediate enjoyment goes, but who finds that pairing is often useful and/or necessary).

Re: Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

#49

Post by DenisM »

jaggederest wrote: post #39
taurath wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every high performer at my workplace states regularly that they wouldn’t be able to pass the entrance exam at the place they currently work. It’s a cruel fucking environment.

In the last couple weeks I've had to decline 18 total hours of "challenges" and "work samples" from 4 different interview processes. I'm not sure at what point it became de rigueur to require applicants to complete on average 4.5 hours of work without pay, but I really, really don't think it's reasonable. I've even offered to show them my current projects in lieu of work samples, and no go. Baffling.

So 8 hour onsite interview is ok for you, but 5 hour home work is not? Where is logic in that?

Re: Is there a fix for impostor syndrome?

#50

Post by DenisM »

scottmcf wrote: post #43
calebio wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been pondering my thoughts on this, and I'm curious what you think. Would you prefer Phone Screen +: A) FANG/Valley style interviews multiple rounds of leetcode algorithm/data structure style questions and some whiteboard design/architecture. B) Pair Programming. A few rounds of pairing on a problems to see actual code. Maybe some lightweight whiteboard design/architecture. C) Take home challenge/assignment that…

If you're asking for C with 4.5 hours of work (as per example above) that's fine if you're paying for their time. Cheaper than a bad hire, stops you missing out on good hires who think "fuck that".

If C should be paid for, then should A be paid for as well? If not, why not?
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