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'Anti-authority' tech rebels take on ISPs, connect NYC with cheap Wi-Fi

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Re: 'Anti-authority' tech rebels take on ISPs, connect NYC with cheap Wi-Fi

#61

Post by Paul-ish »

nycmesh wrote: post #25
jeffreyrogers wrote: post #10

This stuff is cool and maybe useful in far-fetched scenarios, but it's not going to replace ISPs anytime soon. Mesh networks don't make economic sense in most circumstances. Also, I'm guessing that users share the same IP address, which can cause problems. Plus, if one user is doing something illegal and causes the supernode to get shutdown then no one on the mesh network will have access to the internet. Addition: q…

We are replacing ISPs in NYC for our members. This is now, not the future. The main thing holding us back is scaling up the number of installs. All networks, including us, add to this expensive infrastructure. The difference with our infrastructure is it is owned and shared by members.

Very cool. Is this a customer coop or a non-profit (or something else)?

Re: 'Anti-authority' tech rebels take on ISPs, connect NYC with cheap Wi-Fi

#62

Post by Paul-ish »

johnnyforeigner wrote: post #47
inetsee wrote: post #36

Can anyone comment on the utility of mesh networks in rural areas, where the big ISPs say "Sorry, not interested", and the distances between potential nodes is high? I have read articles in the past about hardware hackers setting up systems to broadcast WiFi signals for exceptional distances. Could a system of mesh networks provide rural America (or other countries) with low cost / high speed internet service?

In Catalunya we’ve had such a network for many years and it is specifically used for providing connectivity to rural parts of the country. It’s called Guifi.net and has over 30,000 nodes. I was surprised it wasn’t mentioned in the article actually.

It was mentioned.

> While there are mesh networks dotting the U.S., she says the best working example of what mesh technology can do is in Spain. Guifi.net has more than 34,000 nodes covering an area of roughly 50,000 square kilometres across the Catalonia region.

Re: 'Anti-authority' tech rebels take on ISPs, connect NYC with cheap Wi-Fi

#63

Post by notyourday »

pascalxus wrote: post #45
notyourday wrote: post #7

I'm in NYC. I know a few people who played with it. It barely works. I'm all for this kind of tech solutions, but for crying out loud pretending that this is a replacement for ISPs in NYC really discredits techies.

Why all the negativity? Isn't this tech in the early stages? Isn't there hope that these issues can be worked out? and in what way was it "barely working"? I had at&t in one of SF's typically old buildings and I can tell you, the internet there barely worked - i had to reset the router about once a week, plus hour long downtimes not uncommon. Even now, when I'm in a brand new 3 year new townhouse, I still have a rese…

No, this tech is not in early stages. This tech has been around for years. We have been running this stuff between building since mid nineties. The cards were called "wireless T1" and they were full size ISA cards. It was pre-DSL days. I had a T1 terminating on 4th floor of a brownstone and a couple of my friend who lived across the street got connectivity from me using those cards because Linux supported them. No one else on a street had anything other than a dial up. Eventually we ran Ethernet to the other neighbors because we did not need to run across the street and those neighbors agreed to share a cost of the circuit.

The reason why I'm negative about it is that it gives people incorrect perception. The perception is that my neighbor does not need to pay Optimum or Time Warner or Verizon for internet and he or she can watch Netflix. And that's simply not the case because as soon as five of my neighbors get this WiFi chokes because in a regular Brooklyn block it is going to add another 40-50 wifi access points. Negative perception from folks who own their houses is a death to community ISPs.

This kind of wireless is not a solution. A solution is to wire as much as possible, including wiring between the buildings of my neighbors who own their houses and if needed terminating a single high bandwidth wireless or fiber link into a node that carries entire block.

P.S. I reached out to these guys about a year ago offering to help them when I read another piece written about them. Maybe it even was on HN. I did not get any response.

Re: 'Anti-authority' tech rebels take on ISPs, connect NYC with cheap Wi-Fi

#64

Post by mediocrejoker »

nycmesh wrote: post #55
niroze wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish I could upvote this many times. Great reply. Agree 100% and thanks for speaking for us that work behind the scenes to make things happen.

you are upvoting [things that are not true about us]

> you are upvoting nonsense

I don't think this is a helpful reply.

Since it sounds like you're associated with the project, can you address some of the specific concerns mentioned, like reliability? Do you disagree that hundreds of thousands of dollars are required for five nines connectivity? Do you disagree that that level of reliability is required for your customers etc.

Re: 'Anti-authority' tech rebels take on ISPs, connect NYC with cheap Wi-Fi

#65

Post by nycmesh »

walrus01 wrote: post #58
nycmesh wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our ASN is AS395853. Our peering info is here- https://nycmesh.net/peering/ We have v4 and v6 space. Our uptime when connecting to supernode1 is significantly better than Time Warner Cable as many of our members have reported. We are already established. This is something we have already done! It isn't impossible. Our IXP is DE-CIX, the worlds biggest IXP. We are currently in one data-center/IXP and talking to a few…

Digi Desert LLC, which existed in 2010? Looks like that's the AS of some entity that predates the existence of your project and current public relations effort. You announce a whopping total of two v4 /24. Kudos for having enough clue to know that you needed to establish a presence at a major IX, and actually doing it, because it looks like you're adding peers. But your actual network presence is minuscule. How do yo…

I don't think you get what we are doing at all! Anyway we are in 375 Pearl with a lease and it has most of your long list, diesel generators etc.

We compete on price (donation only)

Re: 'Anti-authority' tech rebels take on ISPs, connect NYC with cheap Wi-Fi

#66

Post by walrus01 »

nycmesh wrote: post #59
walrus01 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Digi Desert LLC, which existed in 2010? Looks like that's the AS of some entity that predates the existence of your project and current public relations effort. You announce a whopping total of two v4 /24. Kudos for having enough clue to know that you needed to establish a presence at a major IX, and actually doing it, because it looks like you're adding peers. But your actual network presence is minuscule. How do yo…

https://www.peeringdb.com/asn/395853 NYC Mesh What is your problem??

You're wasting your own time and those of your "customers" unless you have at least $750,000 to establish a serious presence, in my opinion. Amateur-hour WISP stuff is fine in a rural area. You're pretending to be a highly reliable capable ISP, and will eventually either overextend yourselves, run out of rubes to fund you as a nonprofit, or once you reach a size much bigger than you are now, get stomped on and obliterated by a much larger competitor that overbuilds your entire network with carrier-grade infrastructure and takes all your revenue.

Re: 'Anti-authority' tech rebels take on ISPs, connect NYC with cheap Wi-Fi

#67

Post by Someone1234 »

walrus01 wrote: post #58
nycmesh wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our ASN is AS395853. Our peering info is here- https://nycmesh.net/peering/ We have v4 and v6 space. Our uptime when connecting to supernode1 is significantly better than Time Warner Cable as many of our members have reported. We are already established. This is something we have already done! It isn't impossible. Our IXP is DE-CIX, the worlds biggest IXP. We are currently in one data-center/IXP and talking to a few…

Digi Desert LLC, which existed in 2010? Looks like that's the AS of some entity that predates the existence of your project and current public relations effort. You announce a whopping total of two v4 /24. Kudos for having enough clue to know that you needed to establish a presence at a major IX, and actually doing it, because it looks like you're adding peers. But your actual network presence is minuscule. How do yo…

Your original post was interesting because it raised legitimate questions about their operation. They answered those questions.

This follow up comes across as though you've drawn a conclusion and are now arguing towards that predetermined conclusion while ignoring the additional information provided. Plus your argument has kind of devolved from talking about specific concerns to throwing criticisms at the wall to see what sticks.

You don't seem to be arguing in good faith.

Re: 'Anti-authority' tech rebels take on ISPs, connect NYC with cheap Wi-Fi

#68

Post by grahamburger »

Shameless plug: I run a website that helps people do this kind of thing: https://startyourownisp.com (although it's free and ad free, so not much of a plug really.)

Also have a matrix chatroom on this topic: https://riot.im/app/#/room/#startyourownisp:matrix.org

Re: 'Anti-authority' tech rebels take on ISPs, connect NYC with cheap Wi-Fi

#69

Post by prklmn »

nycmesh wrote: post #25
jeffreyrogers wrote: post #10

This stuff is cool and maybe useful in far-fetched scenarios, but it's not going to replace ISPs anytime soon. Mesh networks don't make economic sense in most circumstances. Also, I'm guessing that users share the same IP address, which can cause problems. Plus, if one user is doing something illegal and causes the supernode to get shutdown then no one on the mesh network will have access to the internet. Addition: q…

We are replacing ISPs in NYC for our members. This is now, not the future. The main thing holding us back is scaling up the number of installs. All networks, including us, add to this expensive infrastructure. The difference with our infrastructure is it is owned and shared by members.

Maybe you could get Ubiquiti to put up some money for promotion around the city to boost installs.

Re: 'Anti-authority' tech rebels take on ISPs, connect NYC with cheap Wi-Fi

#70

Post by gowld »

jessaustin wrote: post #13

The group also knows there will be growing pains as they challenge the status quo and that it's only a matter of time before the big ISPs take notice, which could bring new challenges. I'd like to imagine this would be competition on price and service. Sadly, that won't be the case. They can expect everything from spurious CALEA requirements to rooftop lease shenanigans to unwarranted radio interference claims. Event…

Mesh networks are fine for peer to peer comms inside the mesh. But if you want Netflix you need an uplink.
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