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'Anti-authority' tech rebels take on ISPs, connect NYC with cheap Wi-Fi

cbc.ca

51–60 of 237 posts

Re: 'Anti-authority' tech rebels take on ISPs, connect NYC with cheap Wi-Fi

#51
This is a great ideal. Sticking it to The Man is never a bad thing :) The question seems to be one of level of service and reliability. Collectives (if you will) can certainly work. But at this scale? And necessity?

The ultimate benefit, I would think, would be to cause downward price pressure on the establishment ISPs. But wasn't that also Google Fiber's quest? Which we know didn't last long. Profits or not, there is still a certain level of cost to maintain sustainability of the model.

I hope I don't sound cynical. I honestly just curious and will to share my thoughts out loud.

Re: 'Anti-authority' tech rebels take on ISPs, connect NYC with cheap Wi-Fi

#52
post #36

Can anyone comment on the utility of mesh networks in rural areas, where the big ISPs say "Sorry, not interested", and the distances between potential nodes is high? I have read articles in the past about hardware hackers setting up systems to broadcast WiFi signals for exceptional distances. Could a system of mesh networks provide rural America (or other countries) with low cost / high speed internet service?

In Catalunya we’ve had such a network for many years and it is specifically used for providing connectivity to rural parts of the country. It’s called Guifi.net and has over 30,000 nodes. I was surprised it wasn’t mentioned in the article actually.

[deleted]

Re: 'Anti-authority' tech rebels take on ISPs, connect NYC with cheap Wi-Fi

#53

Actual ISP network engineer here: I'm sure these people are having fun and all, but it's insignificant in the larger scheme of things. (correction to original post: I did not at first see an ASN for them, or announcements of their own IP space. They have an ASN and announce two /24s, and peer at one physical location in metro NYC). Real five nines network infrastructure takes significant capital investment. This part…

I wish I could upvote this many times. Great reply. Agree 100% and thanks for speaking for us that work behind the scenes to make things happen.

Re: 'Anti-authority' tech rebels take on ISPs, connect NYC with cheap Wi-Fi

#54

Actual ISP network engineer here: I'm sure these people are having fun and all, but it's insignificant in the larger scheme of things. (correction to original post: I did not at first see an ASN for them, or announcements of their own IP space. They have an ASN and announce two /24s, and peer at one physical location in metro NYC). Real five nines network infrastructure takes significant capital investment. This part…

Our ASN is AS395853. Our peering info is here- https://nycmesh.net/peering/ We have v4 and v6 space.

Our uptime when connecting to supernode1 is significantly better than Time Warner Cable as many of our members have reported.

We are already established. This is something we have already done! It isn't impossible.

Our IXP is DE-CIX, the worlds biggest IXP. We are currently in one data-center/IXP and talking to a few more colocs.

Re: 'Anti-authority' tech rebels take on ISPs, connect NYC with cheap Wi-Fi

#55
post #53

Actual ISP network engineer here: I'm sure these people are having fun and all, but it's insignificant in the larger scheme of things. (correction to original post: I did not at first see an ASN for them, or announcements of their own IP space. They have an ASN and announce two /24s, and peer at one physical location in metro NYC). Real five nines network infrastructure takes significant capital investment. This part…

I wish I could upvote this many times. Great reply. Agree 100% and thanks for speaking for us that work behind the scenes to make things happen.

you are upvoting [things that are not true about us]

Re: 'Anti-authority' tech rebels take on ISPs, connect NYC with cheap Wi-Fi

#56
post #36

Can anyone comment on the utility of mesh networks in rural areas, where the big ISPs say "Sorry, not interested", and the distances between potential nodes is high? I have read articles in the past about hardware hackers setting up systems to broadcast WiFi signals for exceptional distances. Could a system of mesh networks provide rural America (or other countries) with low cost / high speed internet service?

In Catalunya we’ve had such a network for many years and it is specifically used for providing connectivity to rural parts of the country. It’s called Guifi.net and has over 30,000 nodes. I was surprised it wasn’t mentioned in the article actually.

Guifi.net is actually mentioned halfway through the article.

Re: 'Anti-authority' tech rebels take on ISPs, connect NYC with cheap Wi-Fi

#57
post #29

I'm in NYC. I know a few people who played with it. It barely works. I'm all for this kind of tech solutions, but for crying out loud pretending that this is a replacement for ISPs in NYC really discredits techies.

Our average speeds connecting to our supernodes is around 100Mbps. I'm not sure what you are referring to.

What is the median speed?

Re: 'Anti-authority' tech rebels take on ISPs, connect NYC with cheap Wi-Fi

#58
post #54

Actual ISP network engineer here: I'm sure these people are having fun and all, but it's insignificant in the larger scheme of things. (correction to original post: I did not at first see an ASN for them, or announcements of their own IP space. They have an ASN and announce two /24s, and peer at one physical location in metro NYC). Real five nines network infrastructure takes significant capital investment. This part…

Our ASN is AS395853. Our peering info is here- https://nycmesh.net/peering/ We have v4 and v6 space. Our uptime when connecting to supernode1 is significantly better than Time Warner Cable as many of our members have reported. We are already established. This is something we have already done! It isn't impossible. Our IXP is DE-CIX, the worlds biggest IXP. We are currently in one data-center/IXP and talking to a few…

Digi Desert LLC, which existed in 2010? Looks like that's the AS of some entity that predates the existence of your project and current public relations effort.

You announce a whopping total of two v4 /24.

Kudos for having enough clue to know that you needed to establish a presence at a major IX, and actually doing it, because it looks like you're adding peers. But your actual network presence is minuscule.

How do you intend to compete with the six NYC based companies I can think of off the top of my head that are putting fiber fed, $9,000 to $20,000 5 to 10Gbps 71-86 GHz PTP links on rooftops to build their own backbones, when you're playing around with 1000BaseT to the roof and AF24s?

You have high uptime? Do you have any of the following, because some of your much larger competitors sure do:

sites with parallel A and B side power systems

-48VDC rectifier + battery systems sized for 24 hour runtime at load

diesel generators

propane generators

generator resupply contracts

chassis-based routers with hotswap fan, N+1 power supplies, dual redundant routing engines

pair of identical core routers

singlemode fiber to the roof

-48vdc power to the roof

ironclad rooftop lease agreements with building owners, drawn up by professional telecom/real estate lawyers that run for 5+ year terms

a 24x7x365 NOC staffed by live humans

Re: 'Anti-authority' tech rebels take on ISPs, connect NYC with cheap Wi-Fi

#59
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our ASN is AS395853. Our peering info is here- https://nycmesh.net/peering/ We have v4 and v6 space. Our uptime when connecting to supernode1 is significantly better than Time Warner Cable as many of our members have reported. We are already established. This is something we have already done! It isn't impossible. Our IXP is DE-CIX, the worlds biggest IXP. We are currently in one data-center/IXP and talking to a few…

Digi Desert LLC, which existed in 2010? Looks like that's the AS of some entity that predates the existence of your project and current public relations effort. You announce a whopping total of two v4 /24. Kudos for having enough clue to know that you needed to establish a presence at a major IX, and actually doing it, because it looks like you're adding peers. But your actual network presence is minuscule. How do yo…

https://www.peeringdb.com/asn/395853 NYC Mesh

What is your problem??

Re: 'Anti-authority' tech rebels take on ISPs, connect NYC with cheap Wi-Fi

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't mesh networks higher risk for security? My initial reaction is that while ISPs collect a lot of information about you a mesh network allows an unknown amount of hostile actors to collect information (unless it's set up like Tor, but that has issues too). At least with the standard ISP model there is some accountability and privacy rules could be implemented/enforced. Edit: I think I might have been misundersta…

Well, the content of your requests will be encrypted, that's what SSL is for. Also, individuals who are concerned about this would be free to purchase a direct line via an ISP.

Website fingerprinting is still possible.
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