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Don't Get Your Coworker to Agree with You

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81–90 of 112 posts

Re: Don't Get Your Coworker to Agree with You

#81
>The only person who you're responsible for is you. Kara may or may not be making a mistake with the icon, but you're not responsible for it.

What happens when the issue is security related? Personally I find myself in a situation where I feel like I'm wasting political capital and hurting myself trying to advocate for security. Is the solution to just... not?

Re: Don't Get Your Coworker to Agree with You

#82
post #75

Thought immediately about posting a rant on the obsessive use of "they/their" in a singular context. Pick a pronoun for Kara and use it. Whether he is a she or she is a he, Kara is not a "they" But then I thought, nah. I'll just read something else.

That's a pretty petty reason. Also, you're only going to see usage of the singular "they" increase, so you'll be skipping a fair amount of content with that policy. Especially in the workplace context, assignment of a particular gender for an example like this is often an issue. Many people (myself included) take the reasonable opinion that "they" is preferable to "he or she," if only on aesthetic grounds.

Singular “they” is a different issue than singular l specific “they”, which is what is used in the article; singular ”they” is a very long established usage, but “they” for a specific named person (even if a hypothetical one) is about as well accepted as “it” for that use.

> Many people (myself included) take the reasonable opinion that "they" is preferable to "he or she," if only on aesthetic grounds.

“he or she" and similar constructs are also not generally accepted for specific named individuals.

Re: Don't Get Your Coworker to Agree with You

#83

My approach would be: 1. Talk to Kara, why she prefers her approach and not yours. Don't tell her that the icon is wrong. Ask her, if the icon could be changed to the other. Maybe she is right and you are wrong. She's the expert in this scenario, not you. If shes professional and her approach is wrong, she will see the mistake and adopt your idea. After that, let it pass and don't go out and tell everyone she was wro…

>Stubborn people are more successful then non-stubborn people if you look at statistics.

Success by what metric and which statistics?

Re: Don't Get Your Coworker to Agree with You

#84

My approach would be: 1. Talk to Kara, why she prefers her approach and not yours. Don't tell her that the icon is wrong. Ask her, if the icon could be changed to the other. Maybe she is right and you are wrong. She's the expert in this scenario, not you. If shes professional and her approach is wrong, she will see the mistake and adopt your idea. After that, let it pass and don't go out and tell everyone she was wro…

>Stubborn people are more successful then non-stubborn people if you look at statistics. Success by what metric and which statistics?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/why-stubborn-chil...

https://my.apa.org/apa/idm/login.seam?ERIGHTS_TARGET=http%3A...

Re: Don't Get Your Coworker to Agree with You

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a pretty petty reason. Also, you're only going to see usage of the singular "they" increase, so you'll be skipping a fair amount of content with that policy. Especially in the workplace context, assignment of a particular gender for an example like this is often an issue. Many people (myself included) take the reasonable opinion that "they" is preferable to "he or she," if only on aesthetic grounds.

Singular “they” is a different issue than singular l specific “they”, which is what is used in the article; singular ”they” is a very long established usage, but “they” for a specific named person (even if a hypothetical one) is about as well accepted as “it” for that use. > Many people (myself included) take the reasonable opinion that "they" is preferable to "he or she," if only on aesthetic grounds. “he or she" an…

For a _hypothetical_ person? I don't buy the distinction (ignoring the small aside where the author says Kara was "a real person).

I sincerely doubt that the poster I replied to would be fine with the article if all instances of "Kara" were simply replaced by "[your/my/a] coworker."

Re: Don't Get Your Coworker to Agree with You

#86
post #41

But you are a smart and socially conscious human being. You know that you can’t just go to Kara’s desk and tell them “Kara, the icon is wrong.” Kara would get defensive and argue for the the icon. I never understood this logic. How is Kara being offended a smart and socially conscious decision? A better way to handle criticism is to ask for people's opinions and not get defensive. After reading couple of negotiation…

I've read a bunch of negotiation books as well as conversation books. What the latter heavily emphasized is: Do not ask leading questions What you describe is textbook behavior. People usually will know when you are doing it, and will get defensive. Especially the smarter ones. I look back in all my years and understand a lot of people's reaction to me: Some people have literally shouted at me when adopted the Socrat…

> I've read a bunch of negotiation books as well as conversation books.

i would like to read some good books on negotiation and conversation. do you have any advice on what the best books that you read on the topics were?

Re: Don't Get Your Coworker to Agree with You

#87
1) If you are responsible for someone else's work and will be blamed for the mistakes of that person you should be able to ask them to change something without any drama.

Designers and developers are very prone to drama regarding their work. I've seen this again and again. They become attached to what they've done and can't be objective about it.

2) If you are not responsible for that person's work then, yes, by all means express your opinion in a respectful way and see what happens down the road.

Re: Don't Get Your Coworker to Agree with You

#88
post #86
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read a bunch of negotiation books as well as conversation books. What the latter heavily emphasized is: Do not ask leading questions What you describe is textbook behavior. People usually will know when you are doing it, and will get defensive. Especially the smarter ones. I look back in all my years and understand a lot of people's reaction to me: Some people have literally shouted at me when adopted the Socrat…

> I've read a bunch of negotiation books as well as conversation books. i would like to read some good books on negotiation and conversation. do you have any advice on what the best books that you read on the topics were?

See my comment here:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16977911

Re: Don't Get Your Coworker to Agree with You

#90
post #58
post #53

In situations with clear org structure the final decision between product disagreements can always be handled by the chain of command. When two product people disagree on a feature, the one higher up the org chart can then make the final call. Feelings are saved because roles are clearly defined, and those with greater product knowledge have the authority they need to "make the call", making the product better overal…

That's not really responsive to the point of the article though. The goal isn't actually to "arrive at a decision". Any manager can do that. A military-style chain of command with autocratic power exerted feudally at each level is like the simplest possible form of organization. The point is to avoid getting to a situation where a manager needs to step in and make that call in the first place, because despite its sim…

I still think when handled correctly seniority is the best incentive to reward correct decision making. The problem arises in the (quite frequent) circumstance where people who get to positions of power aren’t there because they have the best guidance / deepest expertise. This is an issue with implementation, not a fault of heirarchy.

I think I’m the domain of the article, design, the guy who is creative director / dept head generally is a good candidate for arbitrating a design or product dispute in companies that promote leaders effectively.

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