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YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

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Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#331

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

eecsninja wrote: post #295
shabble wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cheating is only an issue in the artificial world of academia, where it goes against how the system is supposed to work. What about other artificial systems with defined rules, like sports? Is doping or other cheating permissible? If so, at all levels, or only professional levels? > * Academic grades and degrees, to the extent that they affect your life after academia, should be based on what you can accomplish or…

> What about other artificial systems with defined rules, like sports? Is doping or other cheating permissible? If so, at all levels, or only professional levels? Actually you raise a good point. The sports system is like that too, it's just an artificial system. I don't watch sports so I don't care what goes on inside that system. > Edit: I should point out this isn't a theoretical concern. I personally resent the p…

> I resent the fact that I had to spend so much time in world renowned educational centers learning so much theory that I never use in the real world.

Having worked on everything from OS components to embedded systems, I use that theory constantly and wish I'd had the opportunity to learn more.

Where you took your career rests solely on you; don't blame those who educated you for it.

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#332

Post by anonnel »

Buge wrote: post #263
baldfat wrote: post #2

As a former University Librarian and Residents Director A) Cheating happens more then it doesn't. In a Philosophy Class which had a dozen seniors all cheated in Spring Semester. Professor flunked them all by giving them an F and told them they were lucky they weren't expelled. President Graduated the students and fired the professor. Then on appeal the President was fired and the Professor rehired with a raise. B) Sh…

>Shocked that YouTube or any stock traded company would allow these videos to stay up. Morally this is wrong since cheating hurts everyone in education. Is it Youtube's job to enforce morals? Is it Youtube's job to prevent anything that might hurt education? If it was determined that memes hurt education (by distracting students from studying) should Youtube ban memes?

> Is it Youtube’s job to enforce morals? ...

Wrong frame. YouTube’s ethical responsibility is dictated by their ethos and that of society.

It’s Youtube’s ethical responsibility to not have videos which promote academic cheating products.

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#333

Post by Buge »

anonnel wrote: post #332
Buge wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Shocked that YouTube or any stock traded company would allow these videos to stay up. Morally this is wrong since cheating hurts everyone in education. Is it Youtube's job to enforce morals? Is it Youtube's job to prevent anything that might hurt education? If it was determined that memes hurt education (by distracting students from studying) should Youtube ban memes?

> Is it Youtube’s job to enforce morals? ... Wrong frame. YouTube’s ethical responsibility is dictated by their ethos and that of society. It’s Youtube’s ethical responsibility to not have videos which promote academic cheating products.

There are others who say it's Youtube's responsibility to be a bastion of free speech and not censor people. Different groups of people want different things from Youtube.

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#334

Post by Buge »

sakuronto wrote: post #325
Buge wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Shocked that YouTube or any stock traded company would allow these videos to stay up. Morally this is wrong since cheating hurts everyone in education. Is it Youtube's job to enforce morals? Is it Youtube's job to prevent anything that might hurt education? If it was determined that memes hurt education (by distracting students from studying) should Youtube ban memes?

It wasn't YouTube's job to be the morality police, but much like Cloudflare, YouTube, entirely of its own volition, decided to take on the job, and now it's too late for them to backpedal.

So because some censorship happens there should now be an increase in censorship?

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#335

Post by Buge »

ohashi wrote: post #308
Buge wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Shocked that YouTube or any stock traded company would allow these videos to stay up. Morally this is wrong since cheating hurts everyone in education. Is it Youtube's job to enforce morals? Is it Youtube's job to prevent anything that might hurt education? If it was determined that memes hurt education (by distracting students from studying) should Youtube ban memes?

It can be it's job. The upside of keeping them - you get more business from companies operating in grey/black. The downside, loss of a tiny bit of revenue, possible public backlash/outcry, and the loss of morality. It's hard for people to die on the hill of a service for cheating. If you really want to, go for it, but it'll be lonely.

Could that same thing be said for channels doing gun modifications? Many people got very mad when Youtube took down some of them.

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#336

Post by gaius »

eecsninja wrote: post #102
s17n wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's like saying "stealing isn't morally wrong - inventory control is retailers' responsibility and therefore it's their job to reduce loss".

Academic cheating is NOT morally wrong in a general sense. We only think it is because it's drilled into us from a young age by the educational system. But there's really no equivalent of "cheating" in real world industries where it's the results that matter. e.g. nobody cares if you took wrote the software yourself or got it from someone else's library, as long as the software product works. If cheating happens, it…

nobody cares if you took wrote the software yourself or got it from someone else's library, as long as the software product works

They do if you are in violation of a license...

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#337

Post by anonnel »

Buge wrote: post #333
anonnel wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is it Youtube’s job to enforce morals? ... Wrong frame. YouTube’s ethical responsibility is dictated by their ethos and that of society. It’s Youtube’s ethical responsibility to not have videos which promote academic cheating products.

There are others who say it's Youtube's responsibility to be a bastion of free speech and not censor people. Different groups of people want different things from Youtube.

The crux of this debate is that private companies aren’t currently subject to the First Ammendment and the laws which surround it (which grant as well as restrict free speech). However privately-owned online spaces have become the modern version of the “town squares” which are the intended venues of the First Ammendment.

Today we are repeating debates addressed by 1A and its surrounding laws, by virtue of the fact that private companies aren’t currently subject to 1A.

It’s a healthy debate to have, but we should be aware of the pitfalls - namely that the introduction of 1A upon the old “town squares” freed us from tyranny. Failure to do it again for the new town squares will invite tyranny, and would inevitably bring it back.

This includes the laws which restrict 1A (“shouting fire”, etc.) which cover the old town squares. For the new town squares these are the “content moderation” policy cases online venues struggle with.

The first thing which needs to be done is to bring 1A and the surrounding legislative framework to the new town squares. Then we have the task of crafting laws in that framework which address cases special to the information era: IP, impersonation, disinformation, incitement ...

Unfortunately, the law is behind the curve.

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#338

Post by madeofpalk »

eecsninja wrote: post #165
RIMR wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He could have taken on outsourcing as a side-project, outsourced a major portion of his job successfully, demonstrated it to higher ups transparently, and landed a better role as an outsourcing specialist. Instead, he secretly outsourced his entire job and pretended to actually do the work himself so he could get paid to do nothing. The company fired him because he didn't operate in a way that was good for the compan…

You're right, actually. He hasn't proved trustworthy, but that's because he leaked confidential company materials. I don't get why this is being brought up as a matter of cheating rather than leaking, which is the big elephant in the room. Still shows a lack of ethics though.

People don’t like it when you’re dishonest. You get in trouble for that. Whether you steal money, pay someone for a university exam or wrongfully outsource your job, there will be consequences.

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#339

Post by 2020-3030 »

matz1 wrote: post #112
eponeponepon wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of those points are also true of making a living by (e-)mail fraud, and the first two are true of almost any criminal enterprise.

The difference is essay writing service is not criminal.

It is not criminal yet, but it is wrong enough that it could be. Cheating is in violation of university academic integrity policies and those aiding and abetting that cheating share responsibility.

As more companies and individuals smell the money to be made off tempting students to use this form of "contract cheating", governments are considering legislative responses which could result in the creation of criminal penalties for essay mills. ( https://www.theguardian.com/education/2017/feb/21/plan-to-cr... )

Beyond any possible governmental responses, the essay mills create a large pool of risk just by collecting user data. What happens if criminals target the essay mills, looking for lists of people who may then be blackmailed? What if the essay mills themselves decide to cash in on the extortion potential? Cheating and cheating support are both dirty enough activities that people would probably not want that to be exposed. Google for "essay mills blackmail".

The more advanced a person becomes in their career, the higher their extortion value. How many future politicians, leaders, or other influential people are creating extortion/security risks for themselves? As an employer, how many frauds are in your company and what risk do they bring with them? What ethics do they bring with them or fail to bring with them? How many product failures, delays, firings, lawsuits, sexual harassment cases, violations of company policy and general anti-social behaviors are caused by the group of people who enjoy cheating for personal gain? Will the essay mill companies realize they have large lists of corrupt and corruptible people? Will other companies want to buy these lists so they can know more about who to hire or not hire and for what positions? Will credit companies start using this to adjust people's credit scores?

For all of the people with no regrets for using or participating in the contract cheating of essay ghostwriting and sales - would this turn into regret if the activity was exposed? For that matter, do government intelligence agencies already know who did what or at least have that data laying around?

The more I think about this, the more it seems like such a stupid risk. You can stay stupid by preventing your own learning, corrupt yourself, participate in the corruption of others, reduce literacy, reduce the value of institutional degrees, reduce trust in educational institutions, create an electronic trail of your cheating, and all for the low price of lifetime risk of exposure, extortion, and lower literacy.

What could go wrong?

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#340

Post by your-nanny »

BookmarkSaver wrote: post #243
your-nanny wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, not usually for first offenses (from my experience as college instructor)

But usually only for first offenses (which in my experience still automatically fail that class).

Could you explain? Policies and experiences will differ
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