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Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

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Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#191

How can people read and hear about stories like this, and even possibly think it's OK or even normal? How do lawmakers in the USA convince people that this is acceptable? I have never directly paid a single cent for healthcare, and neither has anyone I know. When I had to get 6 stitches in my forehead at 2 AM on a Sunday morning, it cost me nothing. When my friend needed to get the tip of his finger reattached, it co…

I don't understand the logic of "it will cost too much to save my ear so I'll get plastic surgery instead". That's fucking mad.

A plastic surgeon can do cosmetic surgery, but they aren't cosmetic surgeons: their specialty covers many less-well-known but far more important treatments.

A plastic surgeon specialises in repairing or reconstructing damaged body parts: in this case, the treatment is clearly reconstructive surgery on the patient's ear in the hospital. The patient was weighing the cost of that surgery against living with a damaged ear…

Plastic surgeons also do cosmetic alterations of body parts, such as removing moles, etc. Some platic surgeons work privately to only do these kinds of procedures for celebrities etc., so you may be more familiar with this minority & their work rather than their primary specialty.

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#192
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because most people in the US are brainwashed (note: I live in the US) into thinking paying ~$450 / month per adult for basic health insurance with high deductibles is a bargain because it "saves" them from $100,000+ hospital bills in an emergency scenario. Meanwhile they are still losing ~40% of their income to taxes if they own a small business with no insurance applied. The messed up thing is, the US also off…

That may be the case in an "emergency" that threatens your life. But if you come to the ER with something that doesn't fall into that category? Something life changing like a detached tendon in your hand that will* render your hand permanently useless for life if not fixed within a few days? No insurance? Fork over 50% of the cost of the surgery, upfront, before they'll do anything about it. (this happened to somebod…

At least they told you the cost beforehand, right (no pun intended)?

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#193

Ok, mine is way less than her, but at one of the ER in Wisconsin, they sent me a bill of $400 for literally telling me that I have no disease and sending me back. Out of that, the insurance paid $300, and I paid 100 out of my pocket. I had gone to ER only because it was at an odd time and no other hospital was open.

Why didn't you just wait to see your primary physician?

[deleted]

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#194
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forgot: 3. Canadians pay for their health care in tax, anyways. (However: https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0411/do-canadian... )

And Americans pay more per-capita for federal-funded healthcare than Canadians do… just the Canadians get universal coverage for it. The US manages to spend as much public money on healthcare as most other western countries do, and gets much less for it.

Interestingly, America could fund a Canadian style healthcare system, covering everyone, using _just_ the existing federal healthcare spending (around 2 trillion), completely eliminating the need for private sector spending on healthcare (around 1 trillion). No need to raise taxes. Employers and individuals save a ton of money. The economy strengthens and everyone in the country gets coverage.

As always, that we don't have healthcare for everyone is a political problem, not a spending problem.

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Medicaid is already at the lowest payment rate, so balance billing to that would be a net negative actually. Why should hospitals and doctors be forced to accept contacts from insurers that underpay for services rendered for nothing in return (being part of limited network)?

> so balance billing to that would be a net negative actually If the regulated standard treatment costs were somehow lower than the actual delivery costs, sure. But how on eath could that happen? It's in everyone's best interest for hospital administrators to be heavily involved in setting these costs, and they have no interest in losing money.

Hospital administrators are the problem. They don't contribute to medical care, and their job is to increase profit that goes to higher salaries of themselves and other administrators.

Regarding balance billing:

If Medicaid pays $100 for a $500 procedure, and private insurance pays $400 with the expectation of a 20% coinsurance from the patient but patient refuses to pay, who is going to pay the other $100? Is the expectation that hospitals or doctors shouldn't be compensated for services rendered? Should they work for free and go out of business?

What other business exists where it's ok for people to get something and refuse to pay the bill? Auto repair? Groceries? Legal advice? Housing construction? Land purchase? Auto fuel? Electricity?

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#196
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forgot: 3. Canadians pay for their health care in tax, anyways. (However: https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0411/do-canadian... )

There's still 5% of the US budget being spent on health care: https://media.nationalpriorities.org/uploads/trumpdiscpie_la... Of course, over ten times as much is spent on the military. How can a country with no enemies nearby justify spending 60% of their budget on the military? Especially given how the only ones hostile to them are the ones they pissed off.

That budget doesn't include SSI or Medicare

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that also confuses me about your insurance is that it doesn't even seem to cover the whole amount? I mean what the fuck.

That's the contract you enter into. You pay a premium for coverage of unexpected medical costs and you agree to pay a copay and pay up to a deductible amount. If you don't like the contract, enter into a different contract with a different company, or start your own private insurance companyn or self insure.

I was actually doing something similar with my ISP.

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#198

I recently had a spot appear in my vision. Went to my GP same day, the receptionist called around to get me into a local optometrist who determined it was a detached retina, she called and got me into the local hospital as an emergency case. It was busy but I got my first treatment that evening. The entire journey, my green OHIP card was all I needed, no insurance forms, no pre-approvals, no extra charges. 5 hospital…

> 2. The US system is by far the best and that's why it's so expensive Cognitive dissonance and/or Stockholm syndrome?

The United States is the only country in the Western/European first-world where rationing of healthcare does not happen as a result of direct government mandate. There is still rationing in the United States, but it's covert.

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know a Canadian who had a retina detach while in the States. She went to a Dr. in the states. They determined she needed surgery immediately. Unfortunately, the local hospital would not let her have the surgery. Why? The billing department was closed for the weekend. She offered to pay cash. Still, the answer was no. The surgery was delayed for 3 days. In that time, she her situation severely worsened, causing perm…

As a US citizen, how is that not a lawsuit?

As a non US citizen, saving your eye sight is more important than losing it for an opportunity to sue?

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#200

Here's an interesting fact: Obamacare forced everyone to enter into a contract with insurance companies (individual mandate) who are partly responsible for the exorbitant bills seen by patient. No wonder so many people are pissed about Obamacare: being forced into contracts with companies and bureaucrats which people detest is absurdly Kafkaesque.

...and the worst part, making it a Federal law, but creating 50 separate marketplaces based on the state in which you reside.

If you want to make it a Federal requirement, make it a federal marketplace.

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