Both in rich and poor countries, universal health care brings huge benefits • Hacker News Board

Re: Both in rich and poor countries, universal health care brings huge benefits

#51

Post by austincheney » Wed, May 02, 2018, 2:51 PM UTC

When the issue of universal health care comes up with regards to US policy I often see those emotional arguments pulling on the heart strings. Unfortunately, this is a distraction.

I know this sounds cold, but it comes down to money. Healthcare in America is expensive. The problems appear to be commonly identified by various forms of research and including things like pricing inefficiencies of drugs, malpractice insurance, and administrative inefficiencies.

The problem isn't as simple as blaming medical insurance providers, pricing, or fees. The problems appeared be directly associated to the processes in place, or in the case of drug prices missing pricing regulation. Drug pricing regulation does exist for the VA which has a set pricing schedule, but everybody else gets to pay more.

In order for universal healthcare to come into fruition in the US these cost inefficiencies have to be addressed. If universal healthcare is important for you then these financial and administrative problems are what you should solve for.

Re: Both in rich and poor countries, universal health care brings huge benefits

#52

Post by potatopolis » Wed, May 02, 2018, 2:51 PM UTC

judah wrote: post #23

A problem with government-provided healthcare is that the government will have ultimate say over a patient's care. This is not merely theoretical. Last week, Alfie Evans, a 2 year old, was put to death by the state-run healthcare in the UK.[0] "Alfie's parents had offers of care in Rome, where doctors said they would investigate different treatments. Even Pope Francis appealed to the British government to let Alfie g…

Created my account just to respond to this.

Alfie Evans was allowed to die based on unanimous, qualified medical evidence that was placed before the judiciary, which is entirely separate from the government. This ridiculous idea of "the government putting him to death" that's doing the rounds in the US media at the moment is disgustingly disingenuous and, what is worse, factually far from the mark.

Alfie's parents, at no point, owned his life. He did, and every qualified, trained medical professional agreed that it was not in HIS interests to be kept alive with no realistic hope of recovery. It's dreadfully sad and I don't in the least blame the parents for wanting a different outcome, but this is Terri Schiavo all over again with the added media abuse of the fact that it's a child to further their own agenda.

Re: Both in rich and poor countries, universal health care brings huge benefits

#53

Post by MrBuddyCasino » Wed, May 02, 2018, 2:51 PM UTC

ape4 wrote: post #11

khawkins wrote: post #9

From the Hackernews guidelines: "Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon." This post is clearly political and calls for universal health care have been around for decades.

Universal health care helps startups.

This is not certain. There is evidence that the safer people feel, the less willing they are to take risks. This is only paradoxical at first glance.

Re: Both in rich and poor countries, universal health care brings huge benefits

#54

Post by Escapado » Wed, May 02, 2018, 2:51 PM UTC

programmarchy wrote: post #22

If you get cancer, would you rather be treated in the US or Europe? Survival rates are significantly higher in the US, so I know what I'd choose. And yeah, I'll pay more, too, because I want high quality doctors.

Which makes sense if you can pay. But for low income house holds it's a decision between live long poverty or death. Here in Germany I am pretty glad that whatever I have I can go to a doctor or hospital and not get a single bill for it. Tops I have to pay 5€ for a prescription even if the drug is 120€ normally. And surely even in universal health care systems standards can be very high. It's a matter of investment.

Re: Both in rich and poor countries, universal health care brings huge benefits

#55

Post by ubi_now » Wed, May 02, 2018, 2:52 PM UTC

kingkawn wrote: post #19

dhimes wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get your sentiment, but I personally feel that education should be our #1 defense priority.

No need to fight over which one gets to be called number 1. Both are components of a whole vision; a healthy, thriving populace, building off the successes of one another to create a better experience for everyone, rich and poor alike.

You don't need government programs to do that.

Re: Both in rich and poor countries, universal health care brings huge benefits

#56

Post by simonbarker87 » Wed, May 02, 2018, 2:52 PM UTC

merpnderp wrote: post #10

sykh wrote: post #6

When a person gets a life threatening disease they ought not worry about whether or not their treatment will leave their family in penury. This is especially so in a nation as wealthy as the U.S. The American healthcare system is immoral and I hope it drastically changes. Americans need to change their underlying notions of what it means to be a society. An author was once made fun of for suggesting that it takes a v…

If you think the private healthcare system is immoral, you should take a look at the 100% government ran healthcare system that is the VA. You literally couldn't make up worse things than their administration has been caught doing with little or to consequence. If the VA is the best the US government can do, with some of the most sympathetic citizens, then it is incapable of doing better than our private system.

The point isn’t really to compare it to the current best that the US governmeny can do. With the US’s historic view on universal/“free at the point of access” health care it is hardly surprising that the VA is a mess. What you should compare it to is the best that other governments have done, in which case there are many examples of excellent universal healthcare from public insurance based all the way through to the UK’s NHS - which does an excellent job despite below inflation budget increases and endless media hyped scandals.

Re: Both in rich and poor countries, universal health care brings huge benefits

#57

Post by tomasien » Wed, May 02, 2018, 2:52 PM UTC

dhimes wrote: post #13

tomasien wrote: post #5

We should think of healthcare (not insurance, care) as our #1 national defense priority.

I get your sentiment, but I personally feel that education should be our #1 defense priority.

I'm saying this for political reasons - since healthcare literally is defense of the people's physical well being, I'm suggesting a branding and messaging change not arguing for overall priority re-adjustments against other issues (education, etc)

Re: Both in rich and poor countries, universal health care brings huge benefits

#58

Post by fsloth » Wed, May 02, 2018, 2:52 PM UTC

ordinaryperson wrote: post #18

Universal health care is a euphemism for the poor and sick getting their medical care subsidized by the wealthy and healthy. Morally, caring for the sick seems like the right thing to do, but it's like when I hear Bernie Sanders call for "free college education": he doesn't mean free, he means the wealthy subsidizing it for others. Universal health care implies just distributed costs, but the focus should be on bring…

I'm from a country that has public health and free college education (Finland).

I much prefer paying bit more in taxes than having to have a bad conscience knowing that a lot of the people living in my country would not have the same options as myself.

I'm not exceedingly wealthy but I make more than the statistical average employee.

Re: Both in rich and poor countries, universal health care brings huge benefits

#59

Post by Xylakant » Wed, May 02, 2018, 2:52 PM UTC

judah wrote: post #23

A problem with government-provided healthcare is that the government will have ultimate say over a patient's care. This is not merely theoretical. Last week, Alfie Evans, a 2 year old, was put to death by the state-run healthcare in the UK.[0] "Alfie's parents had offers of care in Rome, where doctors said they would investigate different treatments. Even Pope Francis appealed to the British government to let Alfie g…

This is not a matter of health care. It’s a matter of who gets the last word in childs matters. A court can decide that the parents actions or decisions cause harm to the child and take custody of the child at the request of any concerned person. In this case, the concerned person were the doctors.

Without diving into the decisions in that particular case, this is in general something I consider good. There are parents that abuse their children. It’s also something that may lead to unacceptable outcomes, the law is always imperfect.

Re: Both in rich and poor countries, universal health care brings huge benefits

#60

Post by fbunau » Wed, May 02, 2018, 2:53 PM UTC

In my country we do have single payer health care, but I wouldn't step foot into a state hospital unless I would have a terminal disease.

The infrastructure is old and crumbling, people get infections during operations and walk out more sick than they entered.

Sometimes you are asked to bring your own medicine, and basic medical supplies because hospitals don't provide you with anything. The system is overcrowded and no one gives a shit about you unless you bribe them.

I think the key-word is functioning universal health care.

While I do support paying for universal health care and think it is a basic necessity of a civilized country, you need a good culture and competent people to make it work.

I think a good culture makes shit work, not the process itself. (just like applying Scrum / Agile won't make you solve anything without the right people)