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Both in rich and poor countries, universal health care brings huge benefits

economist.com

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Re: Both in rich and poor countries, universal health care brings huge benefits

#31

Post by pm »

ordinaryperson wrote: post #18

Universal health care is a euphemism for the poor and sick getting their medical care subsidized by the wealthy and healthy. Morally, caring for the sick seems like the right thing to do, but it's like when I hear Bernie Sanders call for "free college education": he doesn't mean free, he means the wealthy subsidizing it for others. Universal health care implies just distributed costs, but the focus should be on bring…

I've seen people take this view, and their view crumble as soon as they get a life-threatening condition and receive (mostly) free healthcare (in Australia). If I'd been born in the US, I'd be dead by now.

Re: Both in rich and poor countries, universal health care brings huge benefits

#32

Post by matthewmacleod »

judah wrote: post #23

A problem with government-provided healthcare is that the government will have ultimate say over a patient's care. This is not merely theoretical. Last week, Alfie Evans, a 2 year old, was put to death by the state-run healthcare in the UK.[0] "Alfie's parents had offers of care in Rome, where doctors said they would investigate different treatments. Even Pope Francis appealed to the British government to let Alfie g…

This is not merely theoretical. Last week, Alfie Evans, a 2 year old, was put to death by the state-run healthcare in the UK

Please don't spread misinformation about this particular topic.

Re: Both in rich and poor countries, universal health care brings huge benefits

#33

Post by aqme28 »

judah wrote: post #23

A problem with government-provided healthcare is that the government will have ultimate say over a patient's care. This is not merely theoretical. Last week, Alfie Evans, a 2 year old, was put to death by the state-run healthcare in the UK.[0] "Alfie's parents had offers of care in Rome, where doctors said they would investigate different treatments. Even Pope Francis appealed to the British government to let Alfie g…

The problem with corporate health care is that the corporation will have ultimate say over a patient's care

Re: Both in rich and poor countries, universal health care brings huge benefits

#34

Post by seren »

ordinaryperson wrote: post #18

Universal health care is a euphemism for the poor and sick getting their medical care subsidized by the wealthy and healthy. Morally, caring for the sick seems like the right thing to do, but it's like when I hear Bernie Sanders call for "free college education": he doesn't mean free, he means the wealthy subsidizing it for others. Universal health care implies just distributed costs, but the focus should be on bring…

In countries with "universal healthcare", there is a big incentive from the organization paying the costs of exams to emphasis preventive care because ultimately, they won't run a deficit every year.

And usually, it has a big bargaining power because its decide if if will reimburse the medicine or not.

See for example : http://www.pmlive.com/pharma_news/france_agrees_lowest_soval...

Similarly, there is a big incentive to reduce tobacco, alcohol consumption and obesity, because it has a big cost shared by everyone paying to the common fund.

So I would say that universal health care has the same incentive to reduce the overall cost, that a multi payer system.

Re: Both in rich and poor countries, universal health care brings huge benefits

#35

Post by gadders »

judah wrote: post #23

A problem with government-provided healthcare is that the government will have ultimate say over a patient's care. This is not merely theoretical. Last week, Alfie Evans, a 2 year old, was put to death by the state-run healthcare in the UK.[0] "Alfie's parents had offers of care in Rome, where doctors said they would investigate different treatments. Even Pope Francis appealed to the British government to let Alfie g…

He wasn't put to death. The poor child was already brain dead. You could have left him on a machine to make his lungs go up and down forever but he was no longer there.

I agree if Italy had agreed to take him then they should have let him move him.

Re: Both in rich and poor countries, universal health care brings huge benefits

#37

Post by clarkevans »

judah wrote: post #23

A problem with government-provided healthcare is that the government will have ultimate say over a patient's care. This is not merely theoretical. Last week, Alfie Evans, a 2 year old, was put to death by the state-run healthcare in the UK.[0] "Alfie's parents had offers of care in Rome, where doctors said they would investigate different treatments. Even Pope Francis appealed to the British government to let Alfie g…

The case of Alfie seems quite independent of Universal Health Care. There is no particular reason why the implementation couldn't have permitted Alfie's parents to take their child to Italy or anywhere else. If anything, the case of Alfie seems more related to CPS, Child Protective Services. That is, when should the state intervene to protect children from their parents.

Re: Both in rich and poor countries, universal health care brings huge benefits

#38

Post by fergie »

merpnderp wrote: post #10
sykh wrote: post #6

When a person gets a life threatening disease they ought not worry about whether or not their treatment will leave their family in penury. This is especially so in a nation as wealthy as the U.S. The American healthcare system is immoral and I hope it drastically changes. Americans need to change their underlying notions of what it means to be a society. An author was once made fun of for suggesting that it takes a v…

If you think the private healthcare system is immoral, you should take a look at the 100% government ran healthcare system that is the VA. You literally couldn't make up worse things than their administration has been caught doing with little or to consequence. If the VA is the best the US government can do, with some of the most sympathetic citizens, then it is incapable of doing better than our private system.

"If you think the private healthcare system is immoral, you should take a look at the 100% government ran healthcare system that is the VA"

Or you could actually read the linked Economist article

Re: Both in rich and poor countries, universal health care brings huge benefits

#39

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

merpnderp wrote: post #10
sykh wrote: post #6

When a person gets a life threatening disease they ought not worry about whether or not their treatment will leave their family in penury. This is especially so in a nation as wealthy as the U.S. The American healthcare system is immoral and I hope it drastically changes. Americans need to change their underlying notions of what it means to be a society. An author was once made fun of for suggesting that it takes a v…

If you think the private healthcare system is immoral, you should take a look at the 100% government ran healthcare system that is the VA. You literally couldn't make up worse things than their administration has been caught doing with little or to consequence. If the VA is the best the US government can do, with some of the most sympathetic citizens, then it is incapable of doing better than our private system.

But other countries can do this. So the hard question then is, why is the US government so uniquely bad at doing things that it doesn't want to do?

Re: Both in rich and poor countries, universal health care brings huge benefits

#40

Post by Beltiras »

sykh wrote: post #6

When a person gets a life threatening disease they ought not worry about whether or not their treatment will leave their family in penury. This is especially so in a nation as wealthy as the U.S. The American healthcare system is immoral and I hope it drastically changes. Americans need to change their underlying notions of what it means to be a society. An author was once made fun of for suggesting that it takes a v…

This is a principal reason why the US was crossed off my list of countries where I would work and live. I fight against the privatization that is occurring within healthcare in my native country, Iceland. We used to have the Scandinavian model but decades of attacks from the right-wing Independence Party has broken our healthcare system. The next phase described by Chomsky is handing it over to private capital since people are outraged that it doesn't work anymore. I'm sickened by the development and feel a little like an old man screaming at the desert wind.
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