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YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

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Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#321

Post by Dylan16807 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #61
baldfat wrote: post #2

As a former University Librarian and Residents Director A) Cheating happens more then it doesn't. In a Philosophy Class which had a dozen seniors all cheated in Spring Semester. Professor flunked them all by giving them an F and told them they were lucky they weren't expelled. President Graduated the students and fired the professor. Then on appeal the President was fired and the Professor rehired with a raise. B) Sh…

> Professor flunked them all by giving them an F and told them they were lucky they weren't expelled My university flunked cheaters with an X instead of an F, a mark that carried onto their official transcript. By the time kids are in college, I think it's fair to be so final with judgements in respect of integrity.

Maybe not with Freshmen, but Seniors sure.

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#322

Post by shabble »

eecsninja wrote: post #295
shabble wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cheating is only an issue in the artificial world of academia, where it goes against how the system is supposed to work. What about other artificial systems with defined rules, like sports? Is doping or other cheating permissible? If so, at all levels, or only professional levels? > * Academic grades and degrees, to the extent that they affect your life after academia, should be based on what you can accomplish or…

> What about other artificial systems with defined rules, like sports? Is doping or other cheating permissible? If so, at all levels, or only professional levels? Actually you raise a good point. The sports system is like that too, it's just an artificial system. I don't watch sports so I don't care what goes on inside that system. > Edit: I should point out this isn't a theoretical concern. I personally resent the p…

Isn't the legal system 'artificial' by that sort of definition? Should people feel obliged to follow those artificial rules?[1]

Also, dismissing a system with a simple "Well, I don't watch it / it doesn't affect me" is a pretty weak argument compared actually addressing how dishonesty & cheating affects those who do participate. (And whether you personally engage or not, I'm sure sport, like education, does somehow impact your life in some way.)

> I resent the fact that I had to spend so much time [...] learning so much theory that I never use in the real world.

Like what? Are you certain you have never and will never use it? Is it equally worthless to everyone, or is there some benefit to some of the people that happen to not be you?

Was it completely unavoidable? Did you investigate your curricula before enrolling, and choose only things directly related to your present career?

I agree that the current qualifications system is broken, IMO having a lot to do with (especially in the UK) pitching university as an essential part of education, and destroying/replacing the whole technical college system in its favour.

I can't accept that the best way to fix it is to make everything worse for everyone until it finally collapses though.

> Nice straw man bro

If we accept that I'm a dishonest person attempting to bypass the 'has good university credentials' check, why wouldn't you expect me to also cheat at building a portfolio, and maybe practising my interview-bullshit techniques in order to best land a job?

I can't imagine any system that has to assume maximum dishonesty could ever be more efficient than one where you can actually trust the information given to you.

Granted, it's a spectrum, but you're seemingly arguing in favour of some sort of 'distrust, then verify, then verify some more' approach, which seems weird.

[1] There are plenty of good arguments for and against, this isn't just a trick question.

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#323

Post by isostatic »

eecsninja wrote: post #264
cirgue wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think the only important part of your children’s future is their ability to get hired, then you’re already setting them up for a life of misery and disappointment.

If you think the only important part of your children's education is what happens inside the walls of schools, then you're already setting them up for a life of mediocrity and servitude.

Of course the point of schools and college isn't the final exam, it's the years of learning you benefit from while being there

At least it should be

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#324

Post by ryanx435 »

All the people in this thread that think most people get a degree for knowledge, instead of the truth that a degree is just a piece of paper that tells employers "I am a normal member of the middle class and I can do basic stuff so please hire me".

I honestly don't care if people cheat.

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#325

Post by sakuronto »

Buge wrote: post #263
baldfat wrote: post #2

As a former University Librarian and Residents Director A) Cheating happens more then it doesn't. In a Philosophy Class which had a dozen seniors all cheated in Spring Semester. Professor flunked them all by giving them an F and told them they were lucky they weren't expelled. President Graduated the students and fired the professor. Then on appeal the President was fired and the Professor rehired with a raise. B) Sh…

>Shocked that YouTube or any stock traded company would allow these videos to stay up. Morally this is wrong since cheating hurts everyone in education. Is it Youtube's job to enforce morals? Is it Youtube's job to prevent anything that might hurt education? If it was determined that memes hurt education (by distracting students from studying) should Youtube ban memes?

It wasn't YouTube's job to be the morality police, but much like Cloudflare, YouTube, entirely of its own volition, decided to take on the job, and now it's too late for them to backpedal.

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#326

Post by sakuronto »

eecsninja wrote: post #102
s17n wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's like saying "stealing isn't morally wrong - inventory control is retailers' responsibility and therefore it's their job to reduce loss".

Academic cheating is NOT morally wrong in a general sense. We only think it is because it's drilled into us from a young age by the educational system. But there's really no equivalent of "cheating" in real world industries where it's the results that matter. e.g. nobody cares if you took wrote the software yourself or got it from someone else's library, as long as the software product works. If cheating happens, it…

Yes it's wrong - you go in to learn, you promise not to cheat, then you violate that promise, and fail to properly demonstrate that you have, in fact, learnt. That's pretty clearly immoral.

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#327

Post by sakuronto »

ada1981 wrote: post #314

Academic Outsourcing or Cheating? Isn’t learning how to arbitrage time / money / skills a critical understanding for the Gig economy? Also, don’t we praise ignoring rules that don’t serve you and force your resources into lower yield activities? (Uber, AirBnb, etc) Where else in the real world do you get penalized for paying someone else to develop IP for you? You can have books ghost written, copy for articles, pret…

Sorry, but can you please argue against your own devil's advocate, because I'm having a hard time coming up with counterpoints, and as a student currently in university, it's left me pretty depressed about my future. Cheating really does seem to pay off both in university and in the real world, regardless of how immoral it is.

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#328

Post by gizmo385 »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #321
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Professor flunked them all by giving them an F and told them they were lucky they weren't expelled My university flunked cheaters with an X instead of an F, a mark that carried onto their official transcript. By the time kids are in college, I think it's fair to be so final with judgements in respect of integrity.

Maybe not with Freshmen, but Seniors sure.

Why not with Freshmen? They're usually around 18 years old and they've been in school for 12 years at that point. I think they outta know by now that cheating is wrong.

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#329

Post by sakuronto »

ryanx435 wrote: post #324

All the people in this thread that think most people get a degree for knowledge, instead of the truth that a degree is just a piece of paper that tells employers "I am a normal member of the middle class and I can do basic stuff so please hire me". I honestly don't care if people cheat.

As a person who just started university, I have to ask: how else do I get employers to not entirely ignore my application on account of "insufficient qualifications"?

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#330

Post by balls187 »

eecsninja wrote: post #260
balls187 wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We only think it is a moral issue because it's been drilled into us since we were kids, and that we think it is not fair to those who don't cheat and devalues the value of their degree. Is it your belief that if we fail to punish academic cheating, people will learn to not cheat in other aspects of life?

It is my belief that we should have checks and balances against that in other aspects of life where they matter. Where people's money or lives are on the line. Academia is not one of those situations.

Okay, thanks for the clarification.

I disagree with your opinion that Academia doesn't matter.

Ignoring Allen Iverson; not taking practice seriously will have consequences during an actual game. At the very least, Academia is practice for adulthood.

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