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Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

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Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#131

Post by natoliniak »

OnMyPhone wrote: post #65
toomanybeersies wrote: post #9

How can people read and hear about stories like this, and even possibly think it's OK or even normal? How do lawmakers in the USA convince people that this is acceptable? I have never directly paid a single cent for healthcare, and neither has anyone I know. When I had to get 6 stitches in my forehead at 2 AM on a Sunday morning, it cost me nothing. When my friend needed to get the tip of his finger reattached, it co…

I hate it all, and would rather pay much more taxes if we had universal healthcare. That aside, I had a few different people give me the following reason why this is acceptable to them. "Why should we pay any of our hard earned money to the government so some drug addict can get their fix?" "Why should I pay for single mothers who made bad decisions?" It is almost always other people making poor decisions or getting…

"Why should we pay any of our hard earned money to the government so some drug addict can get their fix?" "Why should I pay for single mothers who made bad decisions?"

furthermore, taxpayers already foot the bill for these cases anyway since the government reimburses the hospitals, at least partially, for treating the uninsured. What the govt doesn't reimburse, the hospitals pass on to the insured customers (at this point it is hard to call them patients) in the form of higher costs.

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#132

Post by oldcynic »

makomk wrote: post #84
humanrebar wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The court case was between his doctors and his parents. The UK government had absolutely nothing to do with it. Is there a difference in terminology here? The courts are part of the government in my mind. And they have the ability to overrule unjust law.

From what I can tell, Americans seem to define "government" to include the courts as one of its branches, whereas Brits define it to only mean the legislative branch and maybe part of the executive in US terms. Which makes it interesting when British people accuse Americans of lying for claiming the government was responsible for this, especially since I'm sure some of those people know Americans mean something diffe…

Aren't judges appointed by the president in the US? Reports of Supreme Court candidates every time the US elects a president appears to indicate a lack of judicial independence.

I'm not hugely well informed on US law so could be misunderstanding this process.

Edit: Wikipedia tells me Article 3 of the Constitution makes the federal courts part of federal government

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#133

Post by JacobJans »

Ensorceled wrote: post #45

I recently had a spot appear in my vision. Went to my GP same day, the receptionist called around to get me into a local optometrist who determined it was a detached retina, she called and got me into the local hospital as an emergency case. It was busy but I got my first treatment that evening. The entire journey, my green OHIP card was all I needed, no insurance forms, no pre-approvals, no extra charges. 5 hospital…

I know a Canadian who had a retina detach while in the States.

She went to a Dr. in the states. They determined she needed surgery immediately.

Unfortunately, the local hospital would not let her have the surgery. Why? The billing department was closed for the weekend. She offered to pay cash. Still, the answer was no. The surgery was delayed for 3 days. In that time, she her situation severely worsened, causing permanent damage that would have been prevented by surgery.

She immediately made an emergency trip the Vancouver -- and was treated the same day, surgery and everything. No cost.

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#134

Post by nickjj »

ajross wrote: post #104
nickjj wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because most people in the US are brainwashed (note: I live in the US) into thinking paying ~$450 / month per adult for basic health insurance with high deductibles is a bargain because it "saves" them from $100,000+ hospital bills in an emergency scenario. Meanwhile they are still losing ~40% of their income to taxes if they own a small business with no insurance applied. The messed up thing is, the US also off…

> into thinking paying ~$450 / month per adult for basic health insurance with high deductibles is a bargain because it "saves" them from $100,000+ hospital bills in an emergency scenario It is, though. Insurance is expensive, but it's not a scam. That money tends to go mostly for care, overall. Someone has to pay it. It's true that on the whole, the US tends to overpay for care and that other systems tend to get sim…

> It is, though. Insurance is expensive, but it's not a scam. That money tends to go mostly for care, overall. Someone has to pay it.

Yes but the govt already takes a bit over 40% of my income (I run my own business). I'm certainly paying my share. It's not my fault that the govt would rather use those funds on non-healthcare related things.

I'm all for a true universal health care for everyone, but if you're already taxing me so hard, I shouldn't have even more taken away from me. That's unreasonable.

> Because someone has to pay it, and you didn't!

I would bet anything the amount I paid in penalties is more than what most people pay to be insured just going by the average income in the US compared to the "assisted pay" discount you get for having a certain bracket of income.

I don't even make that much either. I'm in the "typical software developer income" bracket, but I'm self employed so I have no help or matching from an employer. I'm essentially paying both halves with no benefits (health or retirement).

And to top it off, if I get into medical trouble I'm left hanging.

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#135

Post by torpfactory »

clarkmoody wrote: post #96
21 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this actually work? Won't they detain you and call the police like a shop or restaurant would if you don't pay the bill?

You forgot the "They must treat you by law" part. You are effectively coercing them into treating you when you walk in the door.

Just to be clear what the alternative to coercion (and I agree with that characterization): rejecting ER patients at the door means some of them will literally be dying in the streets.

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#136

Post by Arnt »

pyvpx wrote: post #30
Arnt wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is it that does cost $5k? Keeping a mostly-unused tomography machine and crew ready in case someone at the ER needs it? Insurance premiums charged per patient who walks in the door? We get these complaints in Germany too (where I currently live) BTW. "A five-minute drive with an ambulance shouldn't cost €500!" someone complained to the newspaper here recently. It doesn't, what costs €500 is keeping enough ambula…

what German health insurance plan does not cover an ambulance ride in full?

Some of the PKV companies offer cheapish plans that effectively do not, or that make you pay the first €x00/month yourself. Things like that. They're marketed as insurance against big problems for a small price.

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#137

Post by seymour333 »

mfoy_ wrote: post #85
Ensorceled wrote: post #45

I recently had a spot appear in my vision. Went to my GP same day, the receptionist called around to get me into a local optometrist who determined it was a detached retina, she called and got me into the local hospital as an emergency case. It was busy but I got my first treatment that evening. The entire journey, my green OHIP card was all I needed, no insurance forms, no pre-approvals, no extra charges. 5 hospital…

You forgot: 3. Canadians pay for their health care in tax, anyways. (However: https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0411/do-canadian... )

You forgot:

3. This is actually a good thing, because we get health care when we need it and aren't exposed to crippling debt?

(your system entirely indefensible from every possible view point)

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#138

Post by gnode »

Ensorceled wrote: post #45

I recently had a spot appear in my vision. Went to my GP same day, the receptionist called around to get me into a local optometrist who determined it was a detached retina, she called and got me into the local hospital as an emergency case. It was busy but I got my first treatment that evening. The entire journey, my green OHIP card was all I needed, no insurance forms, no pre-approvals, no extra charges. 5 hospital…

> my green OHIP card was all I needed

In the UK, the entitlement is even more ubiquitous and fluid. I was diagnosed by my GP, referred to hospital and undergoing surgery under general anaesthetic, in half a day, without showing any form of ID.

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#139

Post by Arnt »

tunbgeetf wrote: post #23
Arnt wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is it that does cost $5k? Keeping a mostly-unused tomography machine and crew ready in case someone at the ER needs it? Insurance premiums charged per patient who walks in the door? We get these complaints in Germany too (where I currently live) BTW. "A five-minute drive with an ambulance shouldn't cost €500!" someone complained to the newspaper here recently. It doesn't, what costs €500 is keeping enough ambula…

€500 is still something many people can pay in Germany, 5k isn't something the average American can foot (with no treatment to boot). It's not at all a comparable complaint. IIRC an ambulance ride in the US is 10-20k, that's indicative of just how much more medical care costs over there.

Sure, there's an extra digit. Much US healthcare seems to suffer from Extra Digit Syndrome.

What might be similar that the billable item is not the costly item. Of course I don't know the first thing about US health care costs (as opposed to billable items).

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#140

Post by psychometry »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #9

How can people read and hear about stories like this, and even possibly think it's OK or even normal? How do lawmakers in the USA convince people that this is acceptable? I have never directly paid a single cent for healthcare, and neither has anyone I know. When I had to get 6 stitches in my forehead at 2 AM on a Sunday morning, it cost me nothing. When my friend needed to get the tip of his finger reattached, it co…

Tens of millions of Americans thought it was smart to elect Donald Fucking Trump president. We're paying the price for decades of underfunding and ignoring our educational system with an astoundingly ignorant electorate.
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