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Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

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Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#91

Post by toast0 »

andruby wrote: post #46
c0nfused wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Typically, the rates negotiated with the various insurance companies are basically secret. No one wants to share the data and there is great incentive not to. If you are in the insurer side, you think you have a competitive advantage compared to company Y. Sharing what you are paying per procedure is bad business If you are on the Hospital side, you want to make sure the insurers keep paying more, and publishing mean…

My personal opinion is that this should be illegal. Prices for the same treatment should be equal regardless of patient or insurer. The insurance repayment policies could differ, but at least the base pay won't seem completely made up. Disclaimer: I only lived in the US for a year.

The base rate is the same (in theory), but insurance policy A is only going to pay 18% of procedure Z and policy B will pay 27%; uninsured patients will be offered a 50% discount if they pay promptly, otherwise the bill will eventually be sold to collections for 1% if it's not paid)

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#92

Post by gambiting »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #9

How can people read and hear about stories like this, and even possibly think it's OK or even normal? How do lawmakers in the USA convince people that this is acceptable? I have never directly paid a single cent for healthcare, and neither has anyone I know. When I had to get 6 stitches in my forehead at 2 AM on a Sunday morning, it cost me nothing. When my friend needed to get the tip of his finger reattached, it co…

I've literally had someone on reddit tell me that (and I quote) "the only reason why you have free healthcare is that we[USA] subsidize it by protecting your country so that you are free to spend your budget on healthcare".

And I mean....maybe there is a little bit of truth to that, but what sort of attitude is this? It was almost pride as in "yeah we're paying through the nose so you don't have to"?

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#93

Post by justherefortart »

Just don't pay it. That's the solution.

Hospitals have these bullshit inflated fees, once they accept the insurance payout that is all they're getting from me.

They're all "non-profits" that scam the system by writing all this shit off as goodwill or bad debts.

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#94

Post by gcb0 »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #9

How can people read and hear about stories like this, and even possibly think it's OK or even normal? How do lawmakers in the USA convince people that this is acceptable? I have never directly paid a single cent for healthcare, and neither has anyone I know. When I had to get 6 stitches in my forehead at 2 AM on a Sunday morning, it cost me nothing. When my friend needed to get the tip of his finger reattached, it co…

its not about laws or health. it's the american dream.

hospitals and doctors are in it for the money. so anything that forces you to pay, they will make you pay, because they will get money and that's the American dream.

the incentives are all wrong. remember the news about a bank telling drug companies to straight out quit researching cures and only go for treatments because those generate more money? its all the same problem

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#95

Post by minikites »

clarkmoody wrote: post #82

Plenty of anecdotes in this thread, predictably. Let's talk about why things are so messed up. The thing to realize here is that total government provision of healthcare is probably cheaper than the way the US does it, but that doesn't mean the market has failed. Healthcare in the United States is anything but a free market. It's the worst of all worlds: special interests extract rents through government regulations…

It's impossible to make healthcare into a free market when the cost of declining to participate in that market is usually your life.

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#96

Post by clarkmoody »

21 wrote: post #66
Talyen42 wrote: post #39

Hospital corporations and insurance corporations are not your friend. You shouldn't have to do this in a first world country, but: * Go to the ER without ID * (optional) Ask how much it will cost * (optional) They do not give prices, as a matter of policy * They must treat you by law * Afterwards, offer a cash payment you deem reasonable * They will accept or decline it Transaction complete. For non-emergency care an…

Does this actually work? Won't they detain you and call the police like a shop or restaurant would if you don't pay the bill?

You forgot the "They must treat you by law" part. You are effectively coercing them into treating you when you walk in the door.

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#97

Post by ceejayoz »

humanrebar wrote: post #51
maxerickson wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The individual mandate was repealed. With the explicit goal of causing the individual marketplaces to implode. In the meantime it's increased the cost to taxpayers of subsidizing marketplace plans!

The individual markets were already a mess.

They were briefly a mess, while insurers worked out the numbers - what to charge, how many young healthy folks would take the penalty, etc.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/04/obamacare-health-insurers-se...

> That report instead finds that the Obamacare market has continued "stabilizing," and that insurers are "regaining profitability" despite continued political uncertainty over the health-care law.

For a bit of anecdotal data, my premiums went up 2% last year, after 17% the previous year. I also got a $500 refund as they'd exceeded the 20% non-medical costs cap.

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#98

Post by jahvo »

gambiting wrote: post #92
toomanybeersies wrote: post #9

How can people read and hear about stories like this, and even possibly think it's OK or even normal? How do lawmakers in the USA convince people that this is acceptable? I have never directly paid a single cent for healthcare, and neither has anyone I know. When I had to get 6 stitches in my forehead at 2 AM on a Sunday morning, it cost me nothing. When my friend needed to get the tip of his finger reattached, it co…

I've literally had someone on reddit tell me that (and I quote) "the only reason why you have free healthcare is that we[USA] subsidize it by protecting your country so that you are free to spend your budget on healthcare". And I mean....maybe there is a little bit of truth to that, but what sort of attitude is this? It was almost pride as in "yeah we're paying through the nose so you don't have to"?

It's funny that guy would say that because, because of the wars the USA and its greatest ally begin, we have to deal with millions of economic immigrants now, which are seriously hamstringing our system. So I'd say it's kinda the opposite

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#99

Post by clarkmoody »

minikites wrote: post #95
clarkmoody wrote: post #82

Plenty of anecdotes in this thread, predictably. Let's talk about why things are so messed up. The thing to realize here is that total government provision of healthcare is probably cheaper than the way the US does it, but that doesn't mean the market has failed. Healthcare in the United States is anything but a free market. It's the worst of all worlds: special interests extract rents through government regulations…

It's impossible to make healthcare into a free market when the cost of declining to participate in that market is usually your life.

Your statement makes no sense. You can decline to participate in the current system. And there are so many ways healthcare could be better in non-life-threatening situations.

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#100

Post by sandworm101 »

I cannot get over how odd "in network" is for everyone outside the united states. For emergencies we all just go to the nearest hospital. They see us. They treat us. Or they stabilize us and discuss whether we should transfer to another hospital for better/faster treatment. There is no discussion of in or out of networks.

Stories like this make me very happy that I no longer live in the US. The constant fear of a surprise medical bill is a stress I don't need.

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