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Electronics-recycling innovator going to prison for trying extend computer lives

latimes.com

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Re: Electronics-recycling innovator going to prison for trying extend computer lives

#21

Post by jlarocco »

bigtones wrote: post #12
sandov wrote: post #3

This should be in the news and front page of every tech site. Whenever I bring up the abusive legal behaviour of these big companies or how inherently flawed IP laws are, people either shrug it off or treat me as if I was wearing a tinfoil-hat.

Microsoft did not prosecute this or file suit - the US Justice Department did. If you want Microsoft's take on this, they responded on their blog after the negative press: https://blogs.microsoft.com/on-the-issues/2018/04/27/the-fac...

Wow, that shines a new light on things. He's clearly defrauding customers by telling them that they're buying genuine Dell and Microsoft discs when they're not. I don't have any sympathy for him after reading that.

Re: Electronics-recycling innovator going to prison for trying extend computer lives

#22

Post by iamnotlarry »

49bc wrote: post #17

Since when do we send snake-oil salesmen to prison? There must be more to this story.

Selling a DVD for 0.25USD is hardly snake oil.

Perhaps you are confusing him with the official from Microsoft who testified that the discs were equivalent to the 25USD discs sold by Microsoft.

Re: Electronics-recycling innovator going to prison for trying extend computer lives

#23

Post by ikamthania »

jlarocco wrote: post #21
bigtones wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft did not prosecute this or file suit - the US Justice Department did. If you want Microsoft's take on this, they responded on their blog after the negative press: https://blogs.microsoft.com/on-the-issues/2018/04/27/the-fac...

Wow, that shines a new light on things. He's clearly defrauding customers by telling them that they're buying genuine Dell and Microsoft discs when they're not. I don't have any sympathy for him after reading that.

My thoughts exactly

Re: Electronics-recycling innovator going to prison for trying extend computer lives

#24

Post by DanBC »

iamnotlarry wrote: post #22
49bc wrote: post #17

Since when do we send snake-oil salesmen to prison? There must be more to this story.

Selling a DVD for 0.25USD is hardly snake oil. Perhaps you are confusing him with the official from Microsoft who testified that the discs were equivalent to the 25USD discs sold by Microsoft.

He wasn't selling the discs for $0.25. He was selling most of them for $3 or $4, and a small number of them for $30 and $40.

Re: Electronics-recycling innovator going to prison for trying extend computer lives

#25

Post by mirimir »

DanBC wrote: post #16
mirimir wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why did he spend tens of thousands of dollars creating discs that had no value? I guess because he cares about encouraging reuse? > The courts found that MS sell these discs for $25. But according to the article, those $25 CDs come with licenses. And his didn't.

The court documents explain this. https://blogs.microsoft.com/uploads/prod/sites/5/2018/04/FIN... > McGloin also testified about “certificate[s] of authenticity” (DE:145:45). A certificate of authenticity, or a “COA,” is a paper-based label that “contains security features, much like a bank note or [a] passport that is adhered to [stuck to] a device” (DE:145:45). During the conspiracy period, COAs typically contained…

How does that relate to Lundgren's case? Did he somehow use unconsumed product keys? Or encourage computer refurbishers to switch COAs from one device to another?

I don't trust the court documents, in any case. Because it's based on opinions of biased experts.

Re: Electronics-recycling innovator going to prison for trying extend computer lives

#26

Post by DanBC »

mirimir wrote: post #25
DanBC wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The court documents explain this. https://blogs.microsoft.com/uploads/prod/sites/5/2018/04/FIN... > McGloin also testified about “certificate[s] of authenticity” (DE:145:45). A certificate of authenticity, or a “COA,” is a paper-based label that “contains security features, much like a bank note or [a] passport that is adhered to [stuck to] a device” (DE:145:45). During the conspiracy period, COAs typically contained…

How does that relate to Lundgren's case? Did he somehow use unconsumed product keys? Or encourage computer refurbishers to switch COAs from one device to another? I don't trust the court documents, in any case. Because it's based on opinions of biased experts.

The court documents explain Lundgren's points (these discs are free, they still require a licence) and the prosecution's points, and why the courts agreed with the prosecution.

Re: Electronics-recycling innovator going to prison for trying extend computer lives

#27

Post by mirimir »

DanBC wrote: post #26
mirimir wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does that relate to Lundgren's case? Did he somehow use unconsumed product keys? Or encourage computer refurbishers to switch COAs from one device to another? I don't trust the court documents, in any case. Because it's based on opinions of biased experts.

The court documents explain Lundgren's points (these discs are free, they still require a licence) and the prosecution's points, and why the courts agreed with the prosecution.

Are you claiming that the court actually understood what he'd done? That's not what I get from the article.

Edit: See the top comments at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16921634 The court clearly didn't understand that he was providing restore disks, which would not work unless the user already had a license key.

Re: Electronics-recycling innovator going to prison for trying extend computer lives

#28

Post by mirimir »

DanBC wrote: post #11
mirimir wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft could have disavowed any claims. Said that the CDs were worth nothing. But they didn't, so they're just as much at fault as the prosecutors are.

Why did he spend tens of thousands of dollars creating discs that had no value? The courts found that MS sell these discs for $25. They mulitplied that by the number of discs he sold. They did it that way, rather than using the price he sold them at, because he had done such a good job of forging them and the law then uses the value or the infringed, not infringing, item. (I don't think he should be in prison for thi…

Upon reflection, he made some mistakes.

But I really don't get why Microsoft didn't get that his business is about waste reduction, and cut him slack. And indeed, why Microsoft didn't just grant him a license for them. Or even, donate thousands of genuine restore disks to his business. It would have cost them virtually nothing. Almost certainly, less than they're paying PR flacks to explain it all away.

Re: Electronics-recycling innovator going to prison for trying extend computer lives

#29

Post by petraeus »

Its quite clear to anyone with even an passing understanding of copyright and to anyone with even a basic moral compass that what this fraudster did was not illegal or right and he paid the price. A few techcrunch articles will not change this understanding.
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