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Medium tries to prevent people reading deleted articles on the Wayback Machine?

selectedintelligence.com

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Re: Medium tries to prevent people reading deleted articles on the Wayback Machine?

#281
post #14

I wonder how wayback machine will work after GDPR? I can't imagine they can just show content that the authors deleted from primary sources?

I guess they could vest it in some corporation that has no feet down within the EU. Aside from actually cordoning off a section of the Internet there's not much they could do otherwise. Though now that I think of it, perhaps blocking [the archive.org crawler] could then become mandatory for GDPR compliance ...

This seems to have annoyed a few people. I didn’t mean this as an actual practical strategy, or facetiously, was more meant as a commentary on modern global corporotisation, and a thought experiment on the limits to which the EU can enforce itself online.

Re: Medium tries to prevent people reading deleted articles on the Wayback Machine?

#282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the first things I do with any article that I've enjoyed is download an HTML copy and create a PDF. Too many times I've bookmarked something only to come back a year later and it's gone.

I used the Firefox extension Scrapbook, until the change to WebExtensions killed it. I feel changes like this are incrementally making the Web "theirs" and not "ours". Separately, someone replied on here to me, a few months ago, that archive.org's policy for respecting -- or not -- robots.txt was in the process of changing. I don't think that putting up a robots.txt policy should be able to retroactively remove from…

What are the intentions of mozilla? Is it "let's take away control from users", or is it "we don't care about what our users want"? What a fail..

Re: Medium tries to prevent people reading deleted articles on the Wayback Machine?

#283
post #105

I think this is more likely to be unintentional. As another comment mentioned, article.is isn't affected. If you want to remove things from the Internet Archive, you can do so using your robots.txt: https://archive.org/about/faqs.php#14 https://www.fightcyberstalking.org/how-to-block-your-website...

One thing I learned about archive.org and robots.txt is that they never actually delete anything. If you accidentally block their bots, then in a month or so, your old content is available again. I've blocked their bots by mistake a few times, and each time my old web content is back. Not a big deal for me, I just feel silly for my old geocities style sites. :-)

Re: Medium tries to prevent people reading deleted articles on the Wayback Machine?

#284
post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once it's stored I imagine they don't need to even scrape the page again, so robots.txt wouldn't do anything.

Internet archive does rescrape periodically, and it removes archived pages based on the current robots.txt. This behavior is documented behavior of the archive that goes beyond the normal conventions of robots.txt.

I would add, the content itself is not removed. They only stop displaying it whilst the robots.txt says not to. If they can not reach your robots.txt, the content comes back as I have experienced multiple times.

Re: Medium tries to prevent people reading deleted articles on the Wayback Machine?

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure you understand that putting something on an http server is publication . It is legally no different than standing on a street corner handing out flyers. You are suggesting that the author of a flyer should be able to demand that everyone who took one burn it immediately, and have the force of law to ensure it happens. That is not how copyright works. Copyright is intended to encourage the creation of new…

> It is legally no different than standing on a street corner handing out flyers. It's not legally different, but it's still different, which is something that I think people on both sides of this debate sometimes selectively forget. Before the web, those "street flyers" were pretty unlikely to go viral and be seen by millions of people. They were pretty unlikely to get, well, much farther than that street corner. An…

I think the "out of print" argument is a cop-out. That's allowing the economic constraints of physical copy production to override the ideals behind the law.

Things went out of print because the unit cost of producing one extra copy was much higher than producing 10000 extra copies. As demand for copies tends to taper off over time, you eventually reach a point where you simply cannot produce just one extra copy at a cost lower than the price the next customer would be willing to pay for it.

No such pressure exists for digital reproduction. Every additional copy costs the same low, low amount. The author then has no reasonable argument for refusing to make an additional copy.

And yes, there was infrastructure for capturing and preserving copies of print flyers. It wasn't all-encompassing, and didn't catch everything, but there are many museums of ephemera now that have extensive collections of published material that was of limited circulation (and limited literary value). For those items that were expected to get thrown away or used as toilet paper, there was always the possibility that someone might have saved it, and it could still be around in some form 200 years later.

It is entirely reasonable for an author to demand that no one else make and distribute copies of their work. But in my opinion, if you can find the author, and make them a reasonable offer for a new copy of their copyrighted work, and they refuse to make one and sell it to you (or to license the right to make your own) then they have essentially abrogated their copyright. You would then be morally (but not legally) justified in copying that work from another source.

When something is published, the genie is out of the bottle. No law can stuff it back in. And copyright was intended to protect the livelihoods of creators, not to give them the ability to more easily destroy what they have wrought. Thus, whenever there is any confusion or ambiguity, I always personally interpret a copyright situation with the test "is there any way this might lessen the creator's ability to sell (or otherwise monetize) one more copy of this work?"

If the creator is no longer attempting to make money from a work, screw their copyrights. We granted them that limited monopoly to make enough money so that the effort of creation would be worthwhile to them. If they don't care to sell, I don't care to protect their ability to sell exclusively.

Re: Medium tries to prevent people reading deleted articles on the Wayback Machine?

#286
post #94

When I delete an article from my blog, it's because I don't want anyone to be able to read it anymore. Be it shame, inaccuracy, change of mood, etc... I think there is something fundamentally wrong with wanting to have EVERYTHING backed up at all time against the creators' will.

I really like this post: http://archive.li/fi5Xn It's been deleted by its author and archive sites are the only places where I can find copies. I've saved a copy for myself just in case. If you use an article like this as a source, it'd be nice if there were a copy somewhere. This is one of my favourite independent movies: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1527628 I bought a DRM-free copy from the writer/director back whe…

> if someone publishes an article, it is nice to be able to see it again in the future.

I think there's an important point here about the difference between access and attribution. People talking about the right to be forgotten are generally opposed to attribution - someone like the top-level poster wants to be able to un-claim a blog post. But people talking about archiving are split between attribution and access - wanting to simply be able to see content, regardless of where it came from.

Two of my favorite bloggers have deleted large swathes of their work, both for reasons I think are inapplicable to me. In one case, they got a job in medicine and removed lots of content that might be unoffensive generally, but could upset a hospital HR department. In the other case, I believe she was worried about the impact her work might have on suicidal people.

In each case, the author wanted to stop having a comprehensive, owned body of their writing, while I simply wanted access to the text. I could give a damn if they accept ownership of that writing - it had interesting ideas and I simply want to be able to read it again.

This isn't a distinction I see made often; work is either in its source location or archived in an attributed way. But there are some cases where I'd be quite happy to get un-attributed access to the actual content someone created.

Re: Medium tries to prevent people reading deleted articles on the Wayback Machine?

#287
post #102
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A simple solution: don't publish things you don't want people to read. This is no different to burning books that the authors no longer support the views in.

So you're incentivizing people not to write. That's bad, we should encourage people to write. It's OK to make mistakes. I see this problem as an even bigger problem with kids. Kids put everything they do online, and they will probably be ashamed of a lot of these things later in life. Comparing that to Facebook: I guess I shouldn't upload pictures on Facebook because it's against my right to want to see one of my old…

> I guess I shouldn't upload pictures on Facebook because it's against my right to want to see one of my old picture disappear later?

If think that you will ever want real control over the pictures, then yes, you should avoid posting them to Facebook. I'd think that that's fairly obvious.

Re: Medium tries to prevent people reading deleted articles on the Wayback Machine?

#288
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your property is the copy on your computer(s) and the right to control who can make more copies. Once you choose to make a copy and transmit it to someone else (perhaps as a response to a HTTP GET request), that copy becomes their property. Your property rights end at the first sale [1]. If you don't want someone to own a copy of your article, don't give it to them or get them to agree to a contract[2]. [1] https://e…

>>Once you choose to make a copy and transmit it to someone else (perhaps as a response to a HTTP GET request), that copy becomes their property. Has anyone tried your argument in a copyright case? Say, I access a NYT article, and according to your reasoning it becomes mine the moment their site show it to me. If it's mine I can publish and monetize it.

> If it's mine I can publish and monetize it.

Yes, you can[1][2] monetize (resell) your copy. You do not have the right to make new copies. This ability is granted explicitly[3] in 17 U.S. Code § 109 (a):

>> [...] the owner of a particular copy or phonorecord lawfully made under this title, or any person authorized by such owner, is entitled, without the authority of the copyright owner, to sell or otherwise dispose of the possession of that copy or phonorecord. [...]

[1] In some situations there may be additional limitations of your rights. (e.g. performance of a copyright-protected work, which technically creates a new derivative work)

[2] I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice. Consult a real lawyer for actual legal advice.

[3] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/109

Re: Medium tries to prevent people reading deleted articles on the Wayback Machine?

#289
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely agree with your comment, not sure why you're being downvoted. A blog is the same thing as a facebook account, would you like it if you couldn't delete your pictures on facebook?

A blog is not like a Facebook post. It's more like writing an essay, publishing it in a book, and then asking libraries to burn their copy of the book.

That's your definition, mine differs.

Re: Medium tries to prevent people reading deleted articles on the Wayback Machine?

#290
post #94

When I delete an article from my blog, it's because I don't want anyone to be able to read it anymore. Be it shame, inaccuracy, change of mood, etc... I think there is something fundamentally wrong with wanting to have EVERYTHING backed up at all time against the creators' will.

Why not publish a retraction and list the reasons why you no longer think the post is correct instead of trying to hide from it? Maybe someone will learn something that way...

Why not just erase it.
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