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YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

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Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#151
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's like saying "stealing isn't morally wrong - inventory control is retailers' responsibility and therefore it's their job to reduce loss".

Academic cheating is NOT morally wrong in a general sense. We only think it is because it's drilled into us from a young age by the educational system. But there's really no equivalent of "cheating" in real world industries where it's the results that matter. e.g. nobody cares if you took wrote the software yourself or got it from someone else's library, as long as the software product works. If cheating happens, it…

> Academic cheating is NOT morally wrong in a general sense.

Well, morality isn't an objectively-verifiable property of the physical universe but one about which different opinions exist and where even if a “correct” answer exists it isn't demonstrably so, and in that sense nothing is morally wrong in a fully general sense, and moral values are very much shaped by socialization, sure.

OTOH, academic cheating involves violation of agreements and obtaining things of value by false representations, which is fairly broadly considered to be morally wrong generally, not just in the specific case of academic cheating.

> But there's really no equivalent of "cheating" in real world industries where it's the results that matter.

Pretty much the entirety of the law is about defining the what is cheating in seeking “real world” results, in the same way as academic codes define what is cheating in academic contexts.

Particularly, delegating assignments to third parties outside the scope of authorization by those giving the assignment, or using materials prohibited by those giving the assignment when completing it, is cheating in the real world, and not just the academy. (The reasons assignments have those kind of restrictions may be different, of course.)

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your argument seems similar to somebody saying that it is okay to litter because the environment is screwed anyway. You may be correct in your criticism of the educational system, but how does that justify you making the situation worse?

I worked with less than 100 clients over the course of two years. My impact was statistically insignificant.

No single raindrop believes that it's responsible for the flood.

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#153
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of those points are also true of making a living by (e-)mail fraud, and the first two are true of almost any criminal enterprise.

The difference is essay writing service is not criminal.

it absolutely is. it's called "conspiracy to commit fraud".

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#154

I'm really disappointed by the downvotes that sithadmin, misterbowfinger, and I have been receiving in this thread. Let me restate the argument, not in favor of cheating but why it's not the moral issue that everyone makes it out to be: 1. Cheating is only an issue in the artificial world of academia, where it goes against how the system is supposed to work. 2. We only think it is a moral issue because it's been dril…

How is cheating only an issue in academia? It shows a lack of ethics and a lack of knowledge on the part of the student, and these are things that are quite important to being able to do a good job in the real world.

You say "the current system is stupid", "academia is an artificial world", and "past projects and word of mouth" are what matters. Past projects and word of mouth are both systems that are ripe for manipulation by having the right social / marketing skills. Coincidentally, you can also appropriate other people's work and pass it off as your own, perhaps without getting caught. I think I'm beginning to understand why you value these highly.

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#155
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the basic foundations of economics is competitive advantage. No one makes everything themselves, they defer to specialists. I don't see why writing papers should be any different, considering most of the work is not about technical competence, it's about proper formatting and writing skills. If scientists could spend all their time performing experiments, statisticians did all the statistics, and technical wri…

Technical writers should write scientific experimentation papers because the purpose of the papers is to explain the experiment to people. I still talk to a rubber duck when writing code that I don't have to explain to anybody (probably). The purpose of an academic paper isn't to explain anything, it's to force the student to form an idea about a thing, then find and apply evidence to support that idea. The purpose i…

If you're cheating in a 101 class, you have much bigger problems than worrying about being expelled for committing fraud in a 101 class. The thing is, that isn't where people are cheating(probably), and finishing a BS in computer science is relatively easy. I'm going to stand by the fact that the hiring process is flawed, the college system is flawed, and our public school system is flawed. There's nothing motivating anyone to learn but themselves.

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#156
post #55

Ha... people find another way to do the same thing. Fundamentally the education industry is failing to inspire students to study.

Agreed with this. There's a disproportionate number of students that are doing the work because they feel forced to. If the education system isn't willing to somehow alter itself to engage its students rather than force pointless crap on them that they'll try hard to forget after finals, then the education system can continue to expect a large number of people attempting to game the system.

Should it be condoned? Obviously not, but the point is this cheating thing is only a symptom of a much bigger issue

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#157

I'm really disappointed by the downvotes that sithadmin, misterbowfinger, and I have been receiving in this thread. Let me restate the argument, not in favor of cheating but why it's not the moral issue that everyone makes it out to be: 1. Cheating is only an issue in the artificial world of academia, where it goes against how the system is supposed to work. 2. We only think it is a moral issue because it's been dril…

No this is a problem in the real world as well. If you are asked to do something but instead you pay someone else to do it, that is bad and you will get in trouble for doing it http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-21043693

From what I can see, the real problem was that he leaked confidential information to the outside world. Unless we can prove some harm to the consumer or the shareholder, I don't see why anyone outside of the company should care.

I still see this as a contractual matter. If his employment contract strictly forbade him from doing this (and it might very well do so), then that's grounds for termination. Just like how copying homework could be grounds for suspension from school. But still a different effect on society than stealing.

Another thing to consider: he's making the company management look bad. The smart thing to do would be to promote him for his smart thinking.

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#158
I would love to see universities set a precedent and just catalog these YoutTbers by name, and then let them know that they are permanently barred from ever being admitted to their schools.

That would send a very strong message about how dishonorable academic cheating is. Anyone promoting it is unfit for higher education, for obvious reasons.

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#159
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of those points are also true of making a living by (e-)mail fraud, and the first two are true of almost any criminal enterprise.

The difference is essay writing service is not criminal.

Just like plenty of ICO scams aren't criminal - but the people behind them lack basic integrity and should be condemned for their sleazy enterprises.

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#160
post #138

A bit of chatter here about "it eventually catches up to people anyway" that I think misses the point. You want people to learn when the stakes are low. This is better for them, and it's better for all of us. School should gradually go from low stakes to higher stakes, not be a low-stakes zone the whole time that then tosses people into the real world. Otherwise you're presented with terrible choices like expelling a…

When are the stakes low vs. high when it comes to academic plagiarism? I would think that the stakes are always quite low, at least until you get to post-graduate academic work where plagiarism can have legal or serious ethical (e.g. medical research) problems. You seem to be claiming that at some point the stakes become "truly" high, and thus we ought to artificially punish plagiarism so that people learn that there…

At the University of Arizona, there was a strict expulsion and forfiture of earned credits policy for plagarism amongst undergrads. I'd say having wasted $20k is pretty high stakes, though I suppose not as high as jail time.
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